The last coin spent by Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith
Zoins
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Just ran across this coin which is very interesting. It's a 1844 half eagle that's engraved and says it's the last coin Joseph Smith spent, about an hour before he was killed. Anyone heard of or know about this?
Apparently Don Kagin, David Hall, and @Regulated have all seen this coin. Given that David Hall said this could be slabbed, I'm surprised it hasn't been, especially when they write:
I heard about a Billy the Kid picture being sold for $5 at a garage sale and the buyer had it certified as the second known Billy the Kid picture and it sold for $ 5 million.
1844 $5 HALF EAGLE LAST MONEY SPENT BY PROPHET JOSEPH MORMON GOLD COIN
Up for sale is this amazing 1844 $5 Gold Half Eagle
With the phrase on obverse side of the coin to the effect that it was the last money paid out by the prophet Joseph about sixty minutes before he was killedAn amazing find !
The Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. was an american religious leader and founder of Mormonism which still continues to present.
This coin was looked at by Kagin's renowned ultra rare coin experts, it is an authentic 1844 $5 gold half eagle.
We have this coin for quite a few years and finally decided to take it to the coin show a couple of years ago. We took it to the Expo Coin Show in Long Beach, California a couple of years ago, and showed it to Chris Napolitano Numismatics at his Booth. Chris said he has never seen anything like it and referred us to Dave Hall at the show. Dave is the founder of PCGS and was employed by PCGS at the time.
Dave looked at it and said he had never seen anything like it. He said PCGS can grade it as far as coin grading goes, but we should go to the Kagin’s booth as they would be the ones to know more about this coin.
We took the coin to the Kagin's booth at the Expo and Dave McCarthy of Kagin’s looked at it. Mr. McCarthy was very excited to see the coin and took it on consignment immediately.
He said he had Mormon collectors that could be very excited about this coin.
Kagin's had the coin for about one year and offered to buy it themselves and also offered to sell it to their collectors a number of times but we did not want to sell.
Then Kagin's had a Mormon Memorabilia Auction and they were kind enough to offer to put the coin in that auction and told us Kagin’s themselves will also be bidding on the coin, but we did not want to sell it yet.
According to Mr. McCarthy, Kagin's consulted a historian about the coin. At first the historian was not available and offers came in for us to sell the coin to their collectors. Later, according to Kagin’s, the historian said it is an 1844 coin which is the year that the Prophet Joseph died. According to Mr. McCarthy, the historian said the time frame for the coin to make it from the mint to the location of Prophet Joseph was feasible (which helps with the provenance).
We think the coin has the possibility of being very valuable and hence did not want to sell it to Kagin’s collectors, even though they offered much more than the coin value.
Having said that, we make no representation about the coin whatsoever or the writings on it.
Whoever buys this coin can take it to your own historian and do their own research.
I heard about a Billy the Kid picture being sold for $5 at a garage sale and the buyer had it certified as the second known Billy the Kid picture and it sold for $ 5 million.
I also heard about a DaVinci painting that sold for over $400 million last year setting the highest record for any art sale, which was purchased for very little.
In both cases, the buyer did additional work on their own to authenticate the item and was able to realize tremendous profits as a result.
Buying this coin is taking a chance. At worst it is a great conversation piece for the right collector who is willing to pay a large premium to own it, and at best it is an invaluable piece of history.
Here are full width images:
UPDATE: the auction is now over.
It was available from knightdiamondcompany:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/knightdiamondcompany?
Original listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1844-5-HALF-EAGLE-LAST-MONEY-SPENT-BY-PROPHET-JOSEPH-MORMON-GOLD-COIN/193212009059?
Comments
That coin would had to have traveled from Philadelphia to Illinois in 5 months, which makes me doubt the veracity of that story.
"This coin was looked at by Kagin's renowned ultra rare coin experts, it is an authentic 1844 $5 gold half eagle."
Okay, step one is done.
Interesting yes, but the coin has a tremendous amount of wear, especially compared to the wear around the added lettering, which still seems to be comparatively sharp. I suppose someone could have carried it around as a pocket piece and added all of that somewhere along the way.
I don’t really see how you can prove the story provenance without some exceptional additional evidence. The date, the distance travelled, and the fact that he was imprisoned at the time of his death make it seem unlikely to me.
The information about the DaVinci and the Billy the Kid photo is completely irrelevant to this piece.
Finally, it seems odd that whoever is quoted here consigned it, allowed it to be put in an auction, but “didn’t want to sell it.”
It appears to be real
It appears to have been worn as jewelry
It was special to someone (they wore it a lot or over a long time)
For any real value over novelty amounts of a few thousand you would need to trace provenance to who it was special too & it would help if it was a shop owner in salt lake. Or his last transaction is well documented.
I would expect Kagins to see if the engraving happened after being jewelry or prior. If it was worn special after the engraving then while not evidence it would prove the person wearing it for years believed it. And find out who that person was and where they got it.
Anything less is the silly speculation about history coin collectors love to do to justify how they think coins came to rest in front of them.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It looks like a great way to inflate the collector value of a low grade half eagle. Without FIRM documentation ... pass!
I would think the owner should get more than melt just for the item being religious in nature.
That whole abstract requires ignoring facts & logic for fancy stories that self affirm the participate is special. Just the type of frame of mind that would aid in a purchase like that. I believe the friendly term is faith, that coin needs a fair amount
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I'm not quite sure how Joseph Smith paid out the coin 60 minutes before he was killed given that he was jailed and was killed by a mob of vigilantes that stormed into the jail. There are Joseph Smith and Brigham Young artefacts out there that have a much better provenance - even signed banknotes
I was also curious about the timing as well given that he was in jail. Seems like there are some questions about this as everyone is pointing out here. Hopefully some more info can be uncovered on this.
How would you ever prove something like that with out support documents and I would be surprised he actually used a gold coin to buy something they where more likely to barter first or trade goods I mean $5 in gold was a lot of cash in those days you didn’t just hand those things out like $100 bills
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
BTW that would be a cool item to have maybe ask the Mormon church and see if they have anything supporting this maybe they would want to purchase it if I’m fact it was a real artifact of there guy
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
At least to there eyes I see evidence of a mount being removed in the denticals. Wear is also similar to buffed and worn jewelry pieces I have seen over the years
But I agree with everything else said
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I would be highly skeptical and pay no more than melt. Damaged, details, faked piece. I may be wrong but would not gamble on that one.
Assuming it is real, which remains to be proven, the wear/damage is consistent with it having been mounted in jewelry and worn for a long time. Note the rim at 12 o'clock obverse and 6:30 reverse.
"Paid out" does not mean spent at a store. Might have been some transaction involving the jail, or a retainer to a lawyer, or various other things.
Five months to have reached the site from Philadelphia means nothing. Coins did circulate.
All of that said, I have no idea if this is authentic or not, but the existence of faked Mormon documents and memorabilia that have been traced back to a person who also claims to be a coin forger gives me great cause for concern.
TD
These are the big red flags for me.
Plus the incongruous mention of David Hall. The potential slabbing of the coin is unrelated to verifying its provenance.
That treatise has too much superfluous detail, and too many storylines that don't add up. It is a huge amount of nothing, meant to divert attention from the obvious lack of proof.
They refused to allow a professional and high visibility auction house sell it, but now they want to peddle it on their own and let the lucky buyer realize the huge windfall after the buyer does their own research?
As far as I am concerned it is a fantasy piece, unless they can provide evidence to support the claim that is engraved on it.
And note to seller: if you are going to try to peddle a priceless coin with a fantastical yarn, put it in something better than a cheap 2x2 with the details scribbled on it.
It could have been carried by one of the pilgrims. BUT, it is too easy to just stamp whatever you want on a coin for that legend to provide any provenance.
My little pamphlet on gold half eagles 1839-1929 by Breen isn't where it is supposed to be. Could somebody please look and verify that half eagles were delivered in the first five months of 1844?
It's on eBay priced at $5M. I wonder how much they've insured it for? I think that'd be telling for how much they believe their own story.
And, if real, surely they'd offer it to the Mormon Church? They're sitting on $100 billion (See this article from the Washington Post).
Has anybody checked old eBay sales for an ex-jewelry and beat-up (maybe not quite this bad) 1844 $5 without the engraving?
Where did the seller get this coin?
Looks like a cast fake to me.
looks like a Mark Hofmann fantasy piece to me
That occurred to me as well.
This looks like the work of a swindler, unless evidence can be produced to prove otherwise.
Lol. Everything about it. Everything. Lol.
--Severian the Lame
This coin has its own PhD. *
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
That could BE the provenance.
The one detail that the seller conveniently left out.
It wouldn’t be worth 5 million if it was a 1795 5$ in UNC with a picture of Ole Joe holding it up with the mob in the back ground. Now that picture might be worth a bit
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
He found it in a 200 year old safe.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That was good!
If anybody really wants to buy this I'll make you one for a much better price, I also guarantee the coin will be authentic
to any who believe this tale, I would like to offer the shekel that was taken from Jesus upon his arrest in Gethsemane and engraved by Josephus, and blessed by seven popes...
Name the seven Popes, and “Sleepy” is not an option!
Mark Hofmann
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mark William Hofmann (born December 7, 1954) is an American counterfeiter, forger, and convicted murderer. Widely regarded as one of the most accomplished forgers in history, Hofmann is especially noted for his creation of documents related to the history of the Latter Day Saint movement. When his schemes began to unravel, he constructed bombs to murder two people in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Mark Hofmann was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. He was raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) by two devoutly religious parents. Hofmann was a below-average high school student, but he had many hobbies including magic, electronics, chemistry, and stamp and coin collecting. He and his friends were said to have made bombs for fun on the outskirts of Murray, Utah. According to Hofmann, while still a teenage coin collector, he forged a rare mint mark on a dime and was told by an organization of coin collectors that it was genuine.
--Severian the Lame
The coin itself looks to be a counterfeit. Look at how mushy the lettering is on the back.
As for the inscription, I cannot say since I don't know my history well enough. If Joseph Smith was jailed for passing a counterfeit $5 gold piece, perhaps this is the one!
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I'm sure PCGS would slab it: "****Genuine Damaged****".
That is who I was suggesting above.
I'm late to this party, but I think it should be immediately slabbed. In the event it turns out to be a significant historical piece, it should be authenticated as the original, preserved, and protected with a Gold Shield photo to protect against counterfeits.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Lots of red flags here, most of them pointed out by the forum already.
Does anyone else find the wording "about sixty minutes before he was killed" a little peculiar?
I wish @Regulated would weigh in on this since he was mentioned in the article as examining the piece.
Oh, David!
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"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Another thought is to work on the engraving itself. I'm sure that same type of engraving will appear on something else that might at least identify the source of the engraving.
And if anyone wants to go all CSI crazy, I'm sure there's forensic goodies stuck inside the engraving. It's pretty deep and protective down there.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
interesting text and 'provenance' on eBay auction, they are taking offers
https://ebay.com/itm/1844-5-HALF-EAGLE-LAST-MONEY-SPENT-BY-PROPHET-JOSEPH-MORMON-GOLD-COIN/193212009059?hash=item2cfc554a63:g:Aw8AAOSw-a5d0GWJ
Now that it's been found, here's the $5 million ask:
From Wikipedia:
On June 23, Smith and his brother Hyrum rode to Carthage to stand trial for inciting a riot.[167] Once the Smiths were in custody, the charges were increased to treason.[168]
On June 27, 1844, an armed mob with blackened faces stormed Carthage Jail where Joseph and Hyrum were being held. Hyrum, who was trying to secure the door, was killed instantly with a shot to the face. Smith fired three shots from a pepper-box pistol that his friend, Cyrus Wheelock, had lent him, wounding three men,[169][170] before he sprang for the window.[171] He was shot multiple times before falling out the window, crying, "Oh Lord my God!" He died shortly after hitting the ground, but was shot several more times before the mob dispersed.[172]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith
So he was in custody from June 23 to June 27 and killed as he jumped out of a jail window. Where would he have spent this coin "about sixty minutes before he was killed" ?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I thought about that. Why not say "ONE HOUR?" It is almost as though the longer form were chosen to fill out the space.
However, it proves nothing. A contemporary engraver might have used the long form for that reason and why not?
I hope that one of those wicked Ebay buyers who likes to return items doesn't buy this one.
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The coin doesn’t say Smith, and is not ‘Mormon Gold’. A US Mint coin and could be Joseph anybody.
Pass. If its not already slabbed im not interested.
Doesn't say "spent." Says "Paid out."
The fact that he was able to be loaned a gun and jump out of a window suggests that this was not a standard jail situation.
"Paid out" indeed. Maybe on his behalf.
But I still see no evidence tomake me comfotabke with the supposed origin.
I have a couple personal diaries found in a bunker in Germany at the end of WWII......
Will negotiate a good deal for anyone interested over 10 million......
Just sayin.......
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.