Gold prices and the coin market

savitale

Here is a link to an article from CDN about rising gold prices: https://www.greysheet.com/news/story?title=gold-pushing-7-year-highs-on-the-eve-of-the-f-u-n-coin-show-and-news-of-u-s-iran-escalation. I have heard many times that rising precious metals prices are " ... a huge positive for the rare coin market going into 2020."

I just don't understand how this works. The bullion value of "rare coins" is an insignificant fraction of their value. I'm pretty sure that rare coin collectors, i.e., those buying enough high-dollar material to move the market, aren't mostly funding their purchases by buying/selling bullion. Certainly the We Buy Gold places and neighborhood coin shops that sell bullion likely do more business in a rising precious metals market, but how much of that money gets reinvested in rare coins? I suspect not much.

291fifth

Many coin collectors are actually more "stackers" than collectors. When gold prices rise they feel rich and start being more free in their spending. There are enough of this type of collector to influence the overall coin market.

MFeld

Quite a few rare coin dealers do considerable bullion business and have large gold bullion related positions, as well. When the price of gold is rising and/or bullion related business increases, those dealers tend to make more money and become more optimistic. That often leads to spending money more freely on both gold bullion related coinage and on rare coins. That’s good for the rare coin market.

Coinstartled

Aside from common mid grade gold that sells for close to melt, the two markets have been long separated.

Take the common Date Saints graded PCGS MS66. Coins brought $3000 in 2006 or so when gold was in the $700 range. A $2300 premium. They can be picked up now without plus signs and stickers for $2000. A $500 premium to melt.

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

Perhaps a sustained gold rally will help pull the market out of the doldrums. If it continues...we will find out.

savitale

@291fifth said:
Many coin collectors are actually more "stackers" than collectors. When gold prices rise they feel rich and start being more free in their spending. There are enough of this type of collector to influence the overall coin market.

I get this, but at least in my mind "stackers" are not buying many rare coins. Maybe there is a trickle-up effect where the money spent buying 90% eventually makes it's way up to the Heritage auctions. I don't quite understand what that path would be though.

metalmeister

@Coinstartled said:
Aside from common mid grade gold that sells for close to melt, the two markets have been long separated.

Take the common Date Saints graded PCGS MS66. Coins brought $3000 in 2006 or so when gold was in the $700 range. A $2300 premium. They can be picked up now without plus signs and stickers for $2000. A $500 premium to melt.

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

Perhaps a sustained gold rally will help pull the market out of the doldrums. If it continues...we will find out.

I agree. Hard to believe how much collectible coins have fallen in value. On the other hand, I still need that 32-D Washie in high grade.

savitale

@MFeld said:
Quite a few rare coin dealers do considerable bullion business and have large gold bullion related positions, as well. When the price of gold is rising and/or bullion related business increases, those dealers tend to make more money and become more optimistic. That often leads to spending money more freely on both gold bullion related coinage and on rare coins. That’s good for the rare coin market.

That would make sense. Maybe it's not obvious to a collector like myself that there are many dealers who span from bullion to rare coins. I look at websites like Legend, CRO, and Douglas Winter and my impression is that they would not have any role in bullion markets. Then you have APMEX, pawn shops, and We Buy Gold places that don't appear to be significant actors in what I would consider to be rare coins.

savitale

@Coinstartled said:

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

I wish that were true in other categories, I'm still looking for that Chain Cent and Small Eagle Half Dollar!

Coinstartled

Remarkably stable have been the 82-83-84CC Morgans in MS62-64 condition.

Doubled from $100 to $200 in a flash 15 years ago and stuck to that number since.

jmlanzaf

@savitale said:

@MFeld said:
Quite a few rare coin dealers do considerable bullion business and have large gold bullion related positions, as well. When the price of gold is rising and/or bullion related business increases, those dealers tend to make more money and become more optimistic. That often leads to spending money more freely on both gold bullion related coinage and on rare coins. That’s good for the rare coin market.

That would make sense. Maybe it's not obvious to a collector like myself that there are many dealers who span from bullion to rare coins. I look at websites like Legend, CRO, and Douglas Winter and my impression is that they would not have any role in bullion markets. Then you have APMEX, pawn shops, and We Buy Gold places that don't appear to be significant actors in what I would consider to be rare coins.

Heritage and stack's are big bullion players as is Great Collections. But virtually every B&M coin operation does MOST of its business in bullion.

It's also worth considering that businesses that aren't retailing gold, do you don't see it, might still be scrapping thousands of ounces.

ricko

Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Smudge

Positive if you subscribe to the “rising tide lifts all boats” idea.

Coinstartled

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Both are subject to immense volatility.

mark_dak

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Until it doesn't...

mark_dak

@savitale said:

@291fifth said:
Many coin collectors are actually more "stackers" than collectors. When gold prices rise they feel rich and start being more free in their spending. There are enough of this type of collector to influence the overall coin market.

I get this, but at least in my mind "stackers" are not buying many rare coins. Maybe there is a trickle-up effect where the money spent buying 90% eventually makes it's way up to the Heritage auctions. I don't quite understand what that path would be though.

I started back into the coin market at least five or six years ago into coins as a "stacker". Since then I have picked up plenty of coins when the opportunity arose. Basically currently buying pre-1933 gold at near bullion prices but walked in and grabbed a slabbed 1858-S along with raw 1843-D and 1852-D half eagles... if you consider those "rare coins" that may be one path. Have since purchased a number of higher quality Morgan Dollars and higher grade early American type coins.

Of course, I previously owned a small collection, most of which I sold many years ago so coins were in my blood.

Kkathyl

@291fifth your answer is pretty much what I have observed. It seems that metals (stacking) pick up when gold moves up. This is usually a reaction after market movement on stocks. But I also see movement occur when prices drop usually in the Wholesale market. Inventory replenishments. That is because most are reactive vs proactive. Best practice for me is a slow and steady buying with what I can afford. I do however look for the rarities when prices are up. That usually is when cash strap business or collateralized entities unload slower moving items. Opportunity arise when you least expect it. 😉

WCC

@metalmeister said:

@Coinstartled said:
Aside from common mid grade gold that sells for close to melt, the two markets have been long separated.

Take the common Date Saints graded PCGS MS66. Coins brought $3000 in 2006 or so when gold was in the $700 range. A $2300 premium. They can be picked up now without plus signs and stickers for $2000. A $500 premium to melt.

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

Perhaps a sustained gold rally will help pull the market out of the doldrums. If it continues...we will find out.

I agree. Hard to believe how much collectible coins have fallen in value. On the other hand, I still need that 32-D Washie in high grade.

Not hard to believe for me. I find it hard to believe that it took so long and what I consider to be elevated prices still exist for so many coins.

The coins that I understand have fallen the most, I would have expected that the internet would have caused many more prior buyers to opt for something else a lot sooner for what most (US) collectors traditionally have bought. By this, I mean mostly US 20th century classics and to a lower extent, circulating moderns

WCC

@Coinstartled said:
Aside from common mid grade gold that sells for close to melt, the two markets have been long separated.

Take the common Date Saints graded PCGS MS66. Coins brought $3000 in 2006 or so when gold was in the $700 range. A $2300 premium. They can be picked up now without plus signs and stickers for $2000. A $500 premium to melt.

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

Perhaps a sustained gold rally will help pull the market out of the doldrums. If it continues...we will find out.

My guess is that most of those coins "deserved" to get "whacked": The example you gave of the 32-D is a common coin in MS-64 that was way overpriced for it's merits at the peak popularity of the series during SQ issuance. At best, I consider it "dead money" for as long as it will matter to anyone reading this post. Almost certainly the same outcome for most of the other coins you implicitly reference.

The question asked by the OP, I once read a summary of a masters thesis (or doctoral dissertation) posted on the internet but I have never been able to find it since. It was at least 10 years ago and it purported to demonstrate that US coin prices were most closely correlated to silver spot.

I don't remember the specifics but I think it was possibly true, at some point in the past. Given what I have heard since 2008, it wasn't nearly so in the run up to the 2011 silver (or gold) peak. From what I have read, the last silver bubble didn't make much of a difference to most (somewhat) expensive numismatic coins.

I'd attribute this to a number of reasons. First, US coins are a "mass market" and most of the population hasn't experienced much prosperity in this expansion. Second, I consider it part of a longer term trend where people are opting to spend less time and money on coins versus other activities. Third, the internet and flood of NCLT have given collectors many more options versus the past. Four, (very) large TPG population increases for many US coins, whether from "gradeflation" or otherwise. The 32-D quarter is presumably one where many more collectors now realize how common these coins are.

jmlanzaf

@mark_dak said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Until it doesn't...

It ALWAYS inflates due to inflation at least as fast as gold.

jmlanzaf

@Coinstartled said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Both are subject to immense volatility.

We're talking pure inflation here.

Coinstartled

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinstartled said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Both are subject to immense volatility.

We're talking pure inflation here.

I stand by my statement.

bidask

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

FASTER

@Coinstartled said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Both are subject to immense volatility.

NOT SO MUCH FOR STOCKS OVER LONG TERM

@mark_dak said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Until it doesn't...

NOT WOORRIED ABOUT THAT AT ALL........GOOD TIME TO BUY.

@WCC said:

@metalmeister said:

@Coinstartled said:
Aside from common mid grade gold that sells for close to melt, the two markets have been long separated.

Take the common Date Saints graded PCGS MS66. Coins brought $3000 in 2006 or so when gold was in the $700 range. A $2300 premium. They can be picked up now without plus signs and stickers for $2000. A $500 premium to melt.

Virtually every category of coin that I follow has been whacked by 30-75% over the last decade. Just saw a 1932-D quarter graded MS64 on Ebay. Looked like a good deal at $1700, as they brought $5000 at their peak. Market though is closer to $1500 on that key date so no great deal.

Perhaps a sustained gold rally will help pull the market out of the doldrums. If it continues...we will find out.

I agree. Hard to believe how much collectible coins have fallen in value. On the other hand, I still need that 32-D Washie in high grade.

Not hard to believe for me. I find it hard to believe that it took so long and what I consider to be elevated prices still exist for so many coins.

The coins that I understand have fallen the most, I would have expected that the internet would have caused many more prior buyers to opt for something else a lot sooner for what most (US) collectors traditionally have bought. By this, I mean mostly US 20th century classics and to a lower extent, circulating moderns

I CONTINUE TO BUY SELECTIVELY.....NEVER STOPPED !

mark_dak

@jmlanzaf said:

@mark_dak said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Until it doesn't...

It ALWAYS inflates due to inflation at least as fast as gold.

Believe whatever you wish... no relation between the two.

Coinstartled

Longterm is not all that easy to define.

I am not taking a position here on the bull or bear side. What i see though is prolonged interest rates which are significantly below the real rate of inflation. Maybe as japan has, we can sustain that until we are all retired on a golf course lot in Palm Springs. Should the ten year climb to a historic 4% or even a Mid 1980's 8-10%. Valuations will rapidly reset to the downside on equities.

WCC

@bidask said:

I CONTINUE TO BUY SELECTIVELY.....NEVER STOPPED !

Unless someone is looking to reallocate to another area of interest or liquidate their collection, I have never understood why falling prices should be considered "bad". How can paying less for more be negative?

I can only infer that this perception is due to the concern that the price won't recover or the buyer is more interested in profiting than collecting.

bidask

@Coinstartled said:
Longterm is not all that easy to define.

I am not taking a position here on the bull or bear side. What i see though is prolonged interest rates which are significantly below the real rate of inflation. Maybe as japan has, we can sustain that until we are all retired on a golf course lot in Palm Springs. Should the ten year climb to a historic 4% or even a Mid 1980's 8-10%. Valuations will rapidly reset to the downside on equities.

In my career have often found that "what if scenarios thinking " have prevented one from making investments real time.

@WCC said:

@bidask said:

I CONTINUE TO BUY SELECTIVELY.....NEVER STOPPED !

Unless someone is looking to reallocate to another area of interest or liquidate their collection, I have never understood why falling prices should be considered "bad". How can paying less for more be negative?

I can only infer that this perception is due to the concern that the price won't recover or the buyer is more interested in profiting than collecting.

Do I like buying nice coins on a distressed basis ...sure ......but this is bottomline a hobby for me.

jmlanzaf

@Coinstartled said:
Longterm is not all that easy to define.

I am not taking a position here on the bull or bear side. What i see though is prolonged interest rates which are significantly below the real rate of inflation. Maybe as japan has, we can sustain that until we are all retired on a golf course lot in Palm Springs. Should the ten year climb to a historic 4% or even a Mid 1980's 8-10%. Valuations will rapidly reset to the downside on equities.

we really need to specify real vs. nominal growth rates. The gold hedge is based on the idea of zero real price increase: gold increases in direct proportion to the decreased value of the currency. The same is true for stocks. Real yields during high inflation are lower than real yields during nominal 2-3% inflation, but that is a little different than the nominal change in prices.

Increased bond yields probably decrease the stock value due to a change in the P/E ratio of stocks (downward). But I wouldn't expect the government to let that happen anytime soon. As you say, Japan is the real test case. 25 years of deflation, negative interest rates and nominal GDP growth...and still ticking along.

BillDugan1959

Related topic but not gold. About 2011, I was sitting with a couple of dealers who specialize in Conders. They were near closing time for the show, but hadn't started to stack and pack. They were waiting on another dealer who was doing a 90% silver deal. Reasonably soon, that guy came over with a nice wad of cash, and he bought one of the nicer, rarer half pence pieces from the guys I was visiting. He said "Sorry to make you wait to the end of the show, I knew that if I got that deal done, I could buy this with profits as a treat for myself". $450 item.

Bullion Silver profits boost/lubrcate Numismatic coins sales. Seen it many times.

jmlanzaf

@mark_dak said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@mark_dak said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
Rising gold prices support the stackers theory of hedging against inflation....Cheers, RickO

Except the stock market usually inflates just as fast

Until it doesn't...

It ALWAYS inflates due to inflation at least as fast as gold.

Believe whatever you wish... no relation between the two.

It is, admittedly, only part of the equation. The same is true of gold. Look how gold failed to increase in price from 1980 to 2000 despite consistent inflation. But in the value of both asset classes is a correlation to the value of the $. The decrease in value of the $ has the same direct affect on the price of all asset classes. HOWEVER, there are numerous other factors that influence the overall direction of the price of the assets.

Oddly...interestingly?...the biggest increase in the price of gold in the last almost 40 years occurred during a period of DEFLATION!

Neither gold nor stocks are a direct hedge against much of anything. In the last 40 years, however, it appears that stocks are more responsive to nominal inflation than gold is.

visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2013/6/4/the-real-price-of-gold-since-1791

https://multpl.com/inflation-adjusted-s-p-500

You'll notice the near random movement of the gold price after freeing the price of gold in 1968 including the odd INCREASE with the deflation of 2009. Meanwhile, the stock market surges during inflationary periods and the only actual drops are during the deflation of the Great Depression, the deflation of 2009, and (somewhat anomalously) the "stagflation" of the 1970s.

Neither is a perfect hedge against much of anything. I agree with you there. But the stock market appears to increase, in real and nominal terms, during periods of inflation while there is no evidence that gold does at all.

bidask

@BillDugan1959 said:
Related topic but not gold. About 2011, I was sitting with a couple of dealers who specialize in Conders. They were near closing time for the show, but hadn't started to stack and pack. They were waiting on another dealer who was doing a 90% silver deal. Reasonably soon, that guy came over with a nice wad of cash, and he bought one of the nicer, rarer half pence pieces from the guys I was visiting. He said "Sorry to make you wait to the end of the show, I knew that if I got that deal done, I could buy this with profits as a treat for myself". $450 item.

Bullion Silver profits boost/lubrcate Numismatic coins sales. Seen it many times.

I tend to agree ... why ? I will be doing this myself !

mark_dak

jmlanzaf,

"In the last 40 years, however, it appears that stocks are more responsive to nominal inflation than gold is."

I guess then, we agree more than we disagree. I do believe the price of gold is tied closest to the dollar more than any other single thing. I would suggest that the increases in gold are tied to events (911, recessions, international events) not the inflation rate during those 40 years.

"But the stock market appears to increase, in real and nominal terms, during periods of inflation while there is no evidence that gold does at all."

This long-running bull market has occurred in a time of near zero or at least extremely tame inflation. Gold has actually performed well during the same time period. Central bank intervention has kept the price of equities high and price of gold down. So long as central banks feel the need to continue intervening we will never get a true measure of asset prices. If they lose the ability to intervene... IMHO I believe gold bugs will win the day.

Coinstartled

@bidask said:

@Coinstartled said:
Longterm is not all that easy to define.

I am not taking a position here on the bull or bear side. What i see though is prolonged interest rates which are significantly below the real rate of inflation. Maybe as japan has, we can sustain that until we are all retired on a golf course lot in Palm Springs. Should the ten year climb to a historic 4% or even a Mid 1980's 8-10%. Valuations will rapidly reset to the downside on equities.

In my career have often found that "what if scenarios thinking " have prevented one from making investments real time.

And i have found that fairytale markets inevitably do not end well.

bidask

@Coinstartled said:

@bidask said:

@Coinstartled said:
Longterm is not all that easy to define.

I am not taking a position here on the bull or bear side. What i see though is prolonged interest rates which are significantly below the real rate of inflation. Maybe as japan has, we can sustain that until we are all retired on a golf course lot in Palm Springs. Should the ten year climb to a historic 4% or even a Mid 1980's 8-10%. Valuations will rapidly reset to the downside on equities.

In my career have often found that "what if scenarios thinking " have prevented one from making investments real time.

And i have found that fairytale markets inevitably do not end well.

You have been saying this for years and years .

Coinstartled

So you were buying Platinum at $1900 or silver at $49.50?

bidask

@Coinstartled said:
So you were buying Platinum at $1900 or silver at $49.50?

You shared similar analogies years ago.

Your what if scenarios thinking for the past ten years appears to have influenced your lack of investing in the stock market .

Seems so . Not a big deal ...many believe this way .....just lost out on making alot of money.

topstuf

Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Jeffnlu

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Do you care to expand on your stance on silver?

matt_dac

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

I bought 3 kilos of silver a few years ago, sold it at a 23% profit just under 2 years later. That was fun

savitale

@mark_dak said:

I started back into the coin market at least five or six years ago into coins as a "stacker". Since then I have picked up plenty of coins when the opportunity arose. Basically currently buying pre-1933 gold at near bullion prices but walked in and grabbed a slabbed 1858-S along with raw 1843-D and 1852-D half eagles... if you consider those "rare coins" that may be one path. Have since purchased a number of higher quality Morgan Dollars and higher grade early American type coins.

Of course, I previously owned a small collection, most of which I sold many years ago so coins were in my blood.

Do you buy more rare coins when gold is going higher?

mark_dak

@savitale said:

@mark_dak said:

I started back into the coin market at least five or six years ago into coins as a "stacker". Since then I have picked up plenty of coins when the opportunity arose. Basically currently buying pre-1933 gold at near bullion prices but walked in and grabbed a slabbed 1858-S along with raw 1843-D and 1852-D half eagles... if you consider those "rare coins" that may be one path. Have since purchased a number of higher quality Morgan Dollars and higher grade early American type coins.

Of course, I previously owned a small collection, most of which I sold many years ago so coins were in my blood.

Do you buy more rare coins when gold is going higher?

Did most of my stacking several years ago. Backed off now that price has moved higher. I guess I'm looking more at numismatic or "rare" coins now so while the plan was not to purchase those now that gold is higher, I guess your answer is yes. I look at gold and silver as an insurance policy if %$#! ever hits the fan. I purchase the other stuff as a hobby and possible longer term investment. I never stacked in replacement of sound investing, its simply a part of a diversified portfolio.

Outhaul

Stackers would rather purchase twenty double eagles at near melt that one key date for the same money.

Cheers

Bob

jmlanzaf

@mark_dak said:
jmlanzaf,

"In the last 40 years, however, it appears that stocks are more responsive to nominal inflation than gold is."

I guess then, we agree more than we disagree. I do believe the price of gold is tied closest to the dollar more than any other single thing. I would suggest that the increases in gold are tied to events (911, recessions, international events) not the inflation rate during those 40 years.

"But the stock market appears to increase, in real and nominal terms, during periods of inflation while there is no evidence that gold does at all."

This long-running bull market has occurred in a time of near zero or at least extremely tame inflation. Gold has actually performed well during the same time period. Central bank intervention has kept the price of equities high and price of gold down. So long as central banks feel the need to continue intervening we will never get a true measure of asset prices. If they lose the ability to intervene... IMHO I believe gold bugs will win the day.

Yes, I tend to agree with most all of this.

cagcrisp

@Jeffnlu said:

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Do you care to expand on your stance on silver?

GSR = Gold to Silver Ratio

12/30/11 GSR 56:1
12/31/12 GSR 55:1
12/31/13 GSR 63:1
12/31/14 GSR 75:1
12/31/15 GSR 77:1
12/30/16 GSR 73:1
12/29/17 GSR 77:1
12/31/18 GSR 83:1
12/31/19 GSR 85:1

Gold to Silver Ratio will hit 100:1 within a few years...

jessewvu

@cagcrisp said:

@Jeffnlu said:

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Do you care to expand on your stance on silver?

GSR = Gold to Silver Ratio

12/30/11 GSR 56:1
12/31/12 GSR 55:1
12/31/13 GSR 63:1
12/31/14 GSR 75:1
12/31/15 GSR 77:1
12/30/16 GSR 73:1
12/29/17 GSR 77:1
12/31/18 GSR 83:1
12/31/19 GSR 85:1

Gold to Silver Ratio will hit 100:1 within a few years...

is that GSR mined, industry use, personal collection, sales, something else?

I guess what i'm asking is, so what?

PerryHall

@jessewvu said:

@cagcrisp said:

@Jeffnlu said:

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Do you care to expand on your stance on silver?

GSR = Gold to Silver Ratio

12/30/11 GSR 56:1
12/31/12 GSR 55:1
12/31/13 GSR 63:1
12/31/14 GSR 75:1
12/31/15 GSR 77:1
12/30/16 GSR 73:1
12/29/17 GSR 77:1
12/31/18 GSR 83:1
12/31/19 GSR 85:1

Gold to Silver Ratio will hit 100:1 within a few years...

is that GSR mined, industry use, personal collection, sales, something else?

I guess what i'm asking is, so what?

GSR = gold silver ratio = price of gold divided by the price of silver.

Cougar1978

It’s a tough call. The US coin market seems over valued to me. Especially vs many Low pop Canada and Mexico issues. I don’t see generics coming back. As far as better date material you need influx of people with deep pocket collecting.....

Do you know how tough it is to find slabbed Mexico Second Republic Material?

I believe collecting will go in a more global direction especially where scarce / low pop material is being chased.

Silver (known as the poor mans gold) is very affordable and has many fantastic modern bullion issues many with low pops. While I have double Eagles, many coming in the bourse room can’t afford them as they are over the weeks check of a lot of people especially here on Houston. Try and put together a set of Mexico 20th century slabbed 50 Pesos Gold. Tough.....or the Cabalito Peso.

blitzdude

I have been saying 100:1 GSR forever. We got close but time to head other direction (I pray due to the weight of all this accumulated silver. lol) 30:1 bring it! Roaring Twenties!!> @cagcrisp said:

@Jeffnlu said:

@topstuf said:
Silver's a better indicator. Inexperienced people gravitate to silver as it's "cheaper."
Coin shops make way more per ounce on silver.
Silver was our highest volume seller and thus the most profitable. (as bullion goes)

I don't recommend silver.

Do you care to expand on your stance on silver?

GSR = Gold to Silver Ratio

12/30/11 GSR 56:1
12/31/12 GSR 55:1
12/31/13 GSR 63:1
12/31/14 GSR 75:1
12/31/15 GSR 77:1
12/30/16 GSR 73:1
12/29/17 GSR 77:1
12/31/18 GSR 83:1
12/31/19 GSR 85:1

Gold to Silver Ratio will hit 100:1 within a few years...

I have been saying 100:1 GSR forever. We got close but time to head other direction (I pray due to the weight of all this accumulated silver. lol) 30:1 bring it! Roaring Twenties!! Gold is so much easier to hoard.

bidask

@Cougar1978 said:
It’s a tough call. The US coin market seems over valued to many Low pop Canada and Mexico issues. I don’t see generics coming back.

Do you know how tough it is to find slabbed Mexico Second Republic Material?

I believe collecting will go in a more global direction especially where scarce / low pop material is being chased.

Silver (known as the poor mans gold) is very affordable and has many fantastic modern bullion issues many with low pops. While I have double Eagles, many coming in the bourse room can’t afford them as they are over the weeks check of a lot of people especially here on Houston. Try and put together a set of Mexico 20th century slabbed 50 Pesos Gold. Tough.....or the Cabalito Peso.

Funny you mentioned 2nd republic Mexican coins .

I am hoarding slabbed 2nd republic Mexican coins especially 8 reales .

jmlanzaf

@bidask said:

@Cougar1978 said:
It’s a tough call. The US coin market seems over valued to many Low pop Canada and Mexico issues. I don’t see generics coming back.

Do you know how tough it is to find slabbed Mexico Second Republic Material?

I believe collecting will go in a more global direction especially where scarce / low pop material is being chased.

Silver (known as the poor mans gold) is very affordable and has many fantastic modern bullion issues many with low pops. While I have double Eagles, many coming in the bourse room can’t afford them as they are over the weeks check of a lot of people especially here on Houston. Try and put together a set of Mexico 20th century slabbed 50 Pesos Gold. Tough.....or the Cabalito Peso.

Funny you mentioned 2nd republic Mexican coins .

I am hoarding slabbed 2nd republic Mexican coins especially 8 reales .

That's a fun series to play around with.

bidask

@jmlanzaf said:

@bidask said:

@Cougar1978 said:
It’s a tough call. The US coin market seems over valued to many Low pop Canada and Mexico issues. I don’t see generics coming back.

Do you know how tough it is to find slabbed Mexico Second Republic Material?

I believe collecting will go in a more global direction especially where scarce / low pop material is being chased.

Silver (known as the poor mans gold) is very affordable and has many fantastic modern bullion issues many with low pops. While I have double Eagles, many coming in the bourse room can’t afford them as they are over the weeks check of a lot of people especially here on Houston. Try and put together a set of Mexico 20th century slabbed 50 Pesos Gold. Tough.....or the Cabalito Peso.

Funny you mentioned 2nd republic Mexican coins .

I am hoarding slabbed 2nd republic Mexican coins especially 8 reales .

That's a fun series to play around with.

Yes they are . Actually I am doing more than just playing around :

Check out my registry ..... May take minute to load .

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mexican-milled-coinage/mexican-first-republic/mexican-8-reales-circulation-strikes-1823-1897/imagegallery/182600