@Coinstartled said:
But you were telling us how bad Romo sucked for many of those years.
He did suck. He put up fairly good numbers, but always choked when it counted. He was a LOSER!
Look at the defenses Dallas had when Romo was the starter, HORRIBLE! Except for 2009 they averaged about 20th in the league for points given up.
Defense wins championships!
I don't really want to rehash my reasons for disliking Romo, but I will just say this . He had decent players on both sides of the ball most of the time. It wasn't a matter of the win/loss record with him it was the way he lost. He never had the way to find to win when it counted most. He lost a lot of games by choking and not because the defense gave up too many points. Someone out here said it best in another thread. Romo was the complete opposite of Eli Manning. Manning looked bad during the season, but was great in the playoffs and won 2 SB's and both against a better team in the Pat's. Romo was just the opposite. I would much rather have a QB like Eli than one like Romo.
On the current defense I disagree with you. They were in the top 10 this year. Look at how many points they gave up to the good teams like the Saints, Pat's and Bill's. They have an outstanding group of LB's the D-line is good,,,could use another real good pass rusher. The DB's are good some really good. Could use a Shut Down Corner, but couldn't everyone. Would love to have Prime Time back in his Prime.
I'm trying to be realistic and not be a homie. Also I think Dak could be (key word could) a great QB with the right coaching. If someone knows different they had better tell Jerry before he makes him the highest paid QB. It's stupid the way that works. I really compare Dak to Russell Wilson in their first 3 years. Weather or not Dak becomes another Wilson is yet to be seen.
@Coinstartled said:
But you were telling us how bad Romo sucked for many of those years.
He did suck. He put up fairly good numbers, but always choked when it counted. He was a LOSER!
Look at the defenses Dallas had when Romo was the starter, HORRIBLE! Except for 2009 they averaged about 20th in the league for points given up.
Defense wins championships!
I don't really want to rehash my reasons for disliking Romo, but I will just say this . He had decent players on both sides of the ball most of the time. It wasn't a matter of the win/loss record with him it was the way he lost. He never had the way to find to win when it counted most. He lost a lot of games by choking and not because the defense gave up too many points. Someone out here said it best in another thread. Romo was the complete opposite of Eli Manning. Manning looked bad during the season, but was great in the playoffs and won 2 SB's and both against a better team in the Pat's. Romo was just the opposite. I would much rather have a QB like Eli than one like Romo.
On the current defense I disagree with you. They were in the top 10 this year. Look at how many points they gave up to the good teams like the Saints, Pat's and Bill's. They have an outstanding group of LB's the D-line is good,,,could use another real good pass rusher. The DB's are good some really good. Could use a Shut Down Corner, but couldn't everyone. Would love to have Prime Time back in his Prime.
I'm trying to be realistic and not be a homie. Also I think Dak could be (key word could) a great QB with the right coaching. If someone knows different they had better tell Jerry before he makes him the highest paid QB. It's stupid the way that works. I really compare Dak to Russell Wilson in their first 3 years. Weather or not Dak becomes another Wilson is yet to be seen.
Not going to debate you on Romo's failure to win big games.
What I am saying is if he had a better defense, he might not have had to be in the position of having to drive the team down the field time after time to win the big game. As I pointed out, his defenses averaged about 20th in the league in points allowed except for 1 year, and that year you got beat by the best team in pro football, the Vikings, who then got screwed in New Orleans.
Your defense was #11 this year. That's pretty good, but with no all-stars, I don't see the "SO MUCH TALENT" that gets talked about.
Prescott does look like he could be great and Elliot is a very talented runner. Two all pros on the offensive line. Very good offense with talent and potential.
Take the time to look back on the great cowboy teams and you will see talent on BOTH sides of the ball.
They play in the weakest division in football and played some other really bad teams, yet finished 8-8.
We'll see what McCarthy can do next year. I would draft for defense, you need it!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
So are the rumors true about Garrett refusing to leave the Cowboys facility and accepting that he is no longer the HC? Kind of odd things I’m hearing 😂
@perkdog said:
So are the rumors true about Garrett refusing to leave the Cowboys facility and accepting that he is no longer the HC? Kind of odd things I’m hearing 😂
McCarthy is not a great coach by any means. He had one championship with Favre and Rodgers in 13 years. Relationship with Rodgers terrible in later years. Couldn't win when Rodgers injured. Part of problem in last 2-3 years was also former GM Ted Thomson, who frankly had health problems. Last few years of his drafting were terrible, along with his refusal to get ANY free agents.
@ADG said:
McCarthy is not a great coach by any means. He had one championship with Favre and Rodgers in 13 years. Relationship with Rodgers terrible in later years. Couldn't win when Rodgers injured. Part of problem in last 2-3 years was also former GM Ted Thomson, who frankly had health problems. Last few years of his drafting were terrible, along with his refusal to get ANY free agents.
The Favre SB was Holmgren.
Coaching in Green Bay has got it's problems. They had Favre for 16 years and then Rodgers for 11 out of the last 12, and yet made it to only 3 Super Bowls. 27 out of 28 years of having a HOF QB should get you more than that.
Funny thing, they won both SBs when they had the #1 and #2 defenses.
Can't really blame McCarthy for the Packers not going after free agents. They had a great run when they did go out and get Reggie White.
Did make the playoffs 9 out of 11 years with McCarthy until Rodgers (?) decided to get a new coach.
As a Vikings fan, I never noticed that McCarthy made too many bad decisions, but I obviously didn't follow the team on a daily basis, it seems like they do not like to spend on free agents, so when draft picks don't turn out to be any good the team suffers.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
Coaching in Green Bay has got it's problems. They had Favre for 16 years and then Rodgers for 11 out of the last 12, and yet made it to only 3 Super Bowls. 27 out of 28 years of having a HOF QB should get you more than that.
Funny thing, they won both SBs when they had the #1 and #2 defenses.
Yeah, funny thing. It's almost like football is a team sport or something crazy like that.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@JoeBanzai said:
Coaching in Green Bay has got it's problems. They had Favre for 16 years and then Rodgers for 11 out of the last 12, and yet made it to only 3 Super Bowls. 27 out of 28 years of having a HOF QB should get you more than that.
Funny thing, they won both SBs when they had the #1 and #2 defenses.
Yeah, funny thing. It's almost like football is a team sport or something crazy like that.
Nah, that can't be it. If they had Tom Brady they would have won at least a dozen.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
Nah, that can't be it. If they had Tom Brady they would have won at least a dozen.
Yes, that is true. The Super Bowl is always won by the team with the best QB. I keep reading about all the physical damage football does to players, and the solution is just so obvious. I mean, what are all those nobodies running around hitting each other doing out there? The QB is the only player that matters, so they should just take all those 350 pound monsters off the field. I am assured that they don't contribute to winning games anyway. Just put the two QBs out there and let them play head-to-head. The best QB still wins, and nobody gets hurt. If football were a team game this wouldn't work, of course, but anyone who thinks Troy Aikman, for example, was a great QB should definitely like my idea.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@JoeBanzai said:
Nah, that can't be it. If they had Tom Brady they would have won at least a dozen.
Yes, that is true. The Super Bowl is always won by the team with the best QB. I keep reading about all the physical damage football does to players, and the solution is just so obvious. I mean, what are all those nobodies running around hitting each other doing out there? The QB is the only player that matters, so they should just take all those 350 pound monsters off the field. I am assured that they don't contribute to winning games anyway. Just put the two QBs out there and let them play head-to-head. The best QB still wins, and nobody gets hurt. If football were a team game this wouldn't work, of course, but anyone who thinks Troy Aikman, for example, was a great QB should definitely like my idea.
Of course it is a team sport, but people who down play QB's Aikman and Bradshaw make me laugh. Yes, they both had great players around them, but they were also great QB's that did their part making these teams great and win 7 SB's between them.
@DIMEMAN said:
... but they were also great QB's that did their part ...
If I have ever given the impression that I am giving the QB less than 1/22 of the credit, then I apologize. Of course the QB does his part, just as everyone else does theirs.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@JoeBanzai said:
Nah, that can't be it. If they had Tom Brady they would have won at least a dozen.
Yes, that is true. The Super Bowl is always won by the team with the best QB. I keep reading about all the physical damage football does to players, and the solution is just so obvious. I mean, what are all those nobodies running around hitting each other doing out there? The QB is the only player that matters, so they should just take all those 350 pound monsters off the field. I am assured that they don't contribute to winning games anyway. Just put the two QBs out there and let them play head-to-head. The best QB still wins, and nobody gets hurt. If football were a team game this wouldn't work, of course, but anyone who thinks Troy Aikman, for example, was a great QB should definitely like my idea.
Of course it is a team sport, but people who down play QB's Aikman and Bradshaw make me laugh. Yes, they both had great players around them, but they were also great QB's that did their part making these teams great and win 7 SB's between them.
Bradshaw NOT a great QB! NOT NOT NOT!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@DIMEMAN said:
... but they were also great QB's that did their part ...
If I have ever given the impression that I am giving the QB less than 1/22 of the credit, then I apologize. Of course the QB does his part, just as everyone else does theirs.
@DIMEMAN said:
... but they were also great QB's that did their part ...
If I have ever given the impression that I am giving the QB less than 1/22 of the credit, then I apologize. Of course the QB does his part, just as everyone else does theirs.
1/22 is a little silly...…...more like 1/2 + !
A perfect example is the Minnesota Vikings, when the offensive line gives Kirk Cousins time, he looks great, when they don't he looks average at best.
If they can get at least one new guard who can pass block for next year Cousins will look better.
Also when Dalvin Cook is gaining good yardage running, Cousins gets a LOT better.
Dan Marino was one of the greatest passers ever. No championships. Not because he wasn't great, because most of his teams were not that good. He did play for a couple of good Miami squads early in his career.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@DIMEMAN said:
... but they were also great QB's that did their part ...
If I have ever given the impression that I am giving the QB less than 1/22 of the credit, then I apologize. Of course the QB does his part, just as everyone else does theirs.
1/22 is a little silly...…...more like 1/2 + !
A perfect example is the Minnesota Vikings, when the offensive line gives Kirk Cousins time, he looks great, when they don't he looks average at best.
If they can get at least one new guard who can pass block for next year Cousins will look better.
Also when Dalvin Cook is gaining good yardage running, Cousins gets a LOT better.
Dan Marino was one of the greatest passers ever. No championships. Not because he wasn't great, because most of his teams were not that good. He did play for a couple of good Miami squads early in his career.
I wouldn't call Marino great. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is a 7. He got most of his stats when throwing to Duper and Clayton who were 2 GREAT receivers in that time period. He had some very good teams playing with him. When they got to a SB they ran up against a better 49'er team. And during Marino's years Miami played against some very good teams that knocked them out of the playoffs. Just bad timing for Dan.
@DIMEMAN said:
1/22 is a little silly...…...more like 1/2 + !
Think about that. The winner of a football game is the team that scores more than the other team. I can think of no possible argument that offense is more valuable than defense. Can you?
No, you can't, at least not without embarrassing yourself. So since, on average, a team's offense is worth 50% of the team's value, you have assigned 100% of the team's offensive value to one of the 11 players. Running backs? No value. Receivers? No value. Linemen? No value. Now, are all QBs worth 1/11 of a team's offensive value? Of course not, some are probably worth as much as 20% of that 50%. Not Bradshaw and certainly not Aikman, but great QBs could be worth as much as 10% of the value of an average team. On a team where the offense was great and the defense was poor, I could see how that could theoretically rise as high as 20%. Ken Anderson, for example, may have been worth that much to the Bengals in some years. But teams with defense bad enough to create numbers that high don't win championships, so if you're looking at QBs with "rings", then 10% is probably about as high as a QBs share could get.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@stevek said:
Looks like the Giants at least, don't think Garrett is the worst offensive coordinator ever.
OMG! There are 2 automatic wins for the Boy's next year! I read some of the remarks about Jason. Here is a clip. I almost spit out my soda!!
"I've known about Jason for a long time, not only through the general public as well-known as he is as head coach of the Cowboys," Judge said via the team website. "There were guys I worked with that I came across in my career at both Alabama and at the New England Patriots that worked with Jason through their time in Miami with him. They consistently all reflected on how smart he is, how great a teacher he is and how his perspective of the game was through a different lens than most coaches. And when he sees it, he's able to communicate it and paint that mental image to the players. And he does a fantastic job of making in-game adjustments.
@stevek said:
Looks like the Giants at least, don't think Garrett is the worst offensive coordinator ever.
OMG! There are 2 automatic wins for the Boy's next year! I read some of the remarks about Jason. Here is a clip. I almost spit out my soda!!
"I've known about Jason for a long time, not only through the general public as well-known as he is as head coach of the Cowboys," Judge said via the team website. "There were guys I worked with that I came across in my career at both Alabama and at the New England Patriots that worked with Jason through their time in Miami with him. They consistently all reflected on how smart he is, how great a teacher he is and how his perspective of the game was through a different lens than most coaches. And when he sees it, he's able to communicate it and paint that mental image to the players. And he does a fantastic job of making in-game adjustments.
The guy that wrote this is on some HEAVY drugs!!!
Not to totally dismiss what the guy wrote, however it seems he forgot perhaps the most important factor - motivation. That factor is probably true in every walk of life.
The great coaches, the great generals, the great leaders, etc, throughout history were all masters at motivating people.
@stevek said:
Looks like the Giants at least, don't think Garrett is the worst offensive coordinator ever.
OMG! There are 2 automatic wins for the Boy's next year! I read some of the remarks about Jason. Here is a clip. I almost spit out my soda!!
"I've known about Jason for a long time, not only through the general public as well-known as he is as head coach of the Cowboys," Judge said via the team website. "There were guys I worked with that I came across in my career at both Alabama and at the New England Patriots that worked with Jason through their time in Miami with him. They consistently all reflected on how smart he is, how great a teacher he is and how his perspective of the game was through a different lens than most coaches. And when he sees it, he's able to communicate it and paint that mental image to the players. And he does a fantastic job of making in-game adjustments.
The guy that wrote this is on some HEAVY drugs!!!
Not to totally dismiss what the guy wrote, however it seems he forgot perhaps the most important factor - motivation. That factor is probably true in every walk of life.
The great coaches, the great generals, the great leaders, etc, throughout history were all masters at motivating people.
Garrett couldn't motivate a Priest to read the Bible!
That list is wacko. They have Marino above Elway, Rodgers and Young!!!!! Give me a freaking break!
You have to be on something pretty strong to put any value on that list. LOL
You have to be able to objectively judge talent. That's a very good list.
Shows you how good Tarkenton was for one thing!
Did you look at that list all the way down! Jim Brown was way down towards the bottom! The top 3 are correct for QB's, but from there on down it's not even in the same universe. Heck even Montana was way down towards the bottom. It's a wack list not worth reading.
@DIMEMAN said:
Did you look at that list all the way down! Jim Brown was way down towards the bottom! The top 3 are correct for QB's, but from there on down it's not even in the same universe. Heck even Montana was way down towards the bottom. It's a wack list not worth reading.
This list is an attempt to do what I've been describing throughout this thread (and others). Defense gets half the value (if it isn't obvious to you why that is, do you really understand what football is?), offense gets half the value, and there are a series of formulas to allocate offensive and defensive value among the various positions and players. The results are necessarily flawed because football is a team sport and this method can only truly work in an individual sport like baseball.
BUT, the results appear to be directionally accurate with only a few head-scratchers. When you say that Montana is "towards the bottom", that's simply not true. He's tied for the 32nd most valuable player ever. And he's also miles and miles ahead of so-so QBs like Bradshaw and Aikman. With regards to Jim Brown, a career list like this is going to punish RBs in the same way baseball lists punish catchers - RBs don't play as long. Brown's AV is a little over 1 per game, putting him ahead of Tom Brady who's listed in first. In 1960, Brown scores at 21 - in a 12 game season! Nobody else in history approaches that. In other words, AV is recognizing Brown as the GOAT, and you're criticizing it because it has him ranked too low.
My point is not to defend the AV list as gospel, because it's not. It is an attempt to allocate value among every member of every team, and it's done a better job of it than anyone here, myself included, could come close to doing off the top of their heads. Spend time looking at it and thinking about it and you'll learn something, guaranteed.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Comments
So if Romo didn't choke, maybe Garrett is closer to .600 over a decade.
I dunno, I get that it was time for him to go. Be interesting to see what the ext coach does.
I don't really want to rehash my reasons for disliking Romo, but I will just say this . He had decent players on both sides of the ball most of the time. It wasn't a matter of the win/loss record with him it was the way he lost. He never had the way to find to win when it counted most. He lost a lot of games by choking and not because the defense gave up too many points. Someone out here said it best in another thread. Romo was the complete opposite of Eli Manning. Manning looked bad during the season, but was great in the playoffs and won 2 SB's and both against a better team in the Pat's. Romo was just the opposite. I would much rather have a QB like Eli than one like Romo.
On the current defense I disagree with you. They were in the top 10 this year. Look at how many points they gave up to the good teams like the Saints, Pat's and Bill's. They have an outstanding group of LB's the D-line is good,,,could use another real good pass rusher. The DB's are good some really good. Could use a Shut Down Corner, but couldn't everyone. Would love to have Prime Time back in his Prime.
I'm trying to be realistic and not be a homie. Also I think Dak could be (key word could) a great QB with the right coaching. If someone knows different they had better tell Jerry before he makes him the highest paid QB. It's stupid the way that works. I really compare Dak to Russell Wilson in their first 3 years. Weather or not Dak becomes another Wilson is yet to be seen.
Well, you got Mike McCarthy.
I have mixed feelings on him, but will see how he does. He did great in Green Bay, but didn't get along with Rodgers and Rodgers had him fired.
Not going to debate you on Romo's failure to win big games.
What I am saying is if he had a better defense, he might not have had to be in the position of having to drive the team down the field time after time to win the big game. As I pointed out, his defenses averaged about 20th in the league in points allowed except for 1 year, and that year you got beat by the best team in pro football, the Vikings, who then got screwed in New Orleans.
Your defense was #11 this year. That's pretty good, but with no all-stars, I don't see the "SO MUCH TALENT" that gets talked about.
Prescott does look like he could be great and Elliot is a very talented runner. Two all pros on the offensive line. Very good offense with talent and potential.
Take the time to look back on the great cowboy teams and you will see talent on BOTH sides of the ball.
They play in the weakest division in football and played some other really bad teams, yet finished 8-8.
We'll see what McCarthy can do next year. I would draft for defense, you need it!
or just put jessica simpson in the building! 😉
Hot!
Erin Andrews on the sidelines is OK too.
there you go making perfect sense again! 😉
can definitely overlook the whole gator thing there!
wasnt romo 1-9 with her in attendance or something?
She must of been a distraction.
i'd distract that all of about 2 minutes. on my best day!
At Dimeman's age all he can do is count her money.
When the Pack gave Starr the sack, I hope it was handled/taken better than Tom Landry's dismissal!
And I thought us going 12 years (1999-2010) without a Final Four was bad...America's Team hasn't been to the "Final Four" once in the past 25 years
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
So are the rumors true about Garrett refusing to leave the Cowboys facility and accepting that he is no longer the HC? Kind of odd things I’m hearing 😂
Get a rope......find a tree!
sounds like a great opportunity for kaepernick to get out there to protest?!?!
McCarthy is not a great coach by any means. He had one championship with Favre and Rodgers in 13 years. Relationship with Rodgers terrible in later years. Couldn't win when Rodgers injured. Part of problem in last 2-3 years was also former GM Ted Thomson, who frankly had health problems. Last few years of his drafting were terrible, along with his refusal to get ANY free agents.
The Favre SB was Holmgren.
Coaching in Green Bay has got it's problems. They had Favre for 16 years and then Rodgers for 11 out of the last 12, and yet made it to only 3 Super Bowls. 27 out of 28 years of having a HOF QB should get you more than that.
Funny thing, they won both SBs when they had the #1 and #2 defenses.
Can't really blame McCarthy for the Packers not going after free agents. They had a great run when they did go out and get Reggie White.
Did make the playoffs 9 out of 11 years with McCarthy until Rodgers (?) decided to get a new coach.
As a Vikings fan, I never noticed that McCarthy made too many bad decisions, but I obviously didn't follow the team on a daily basis, it seems like they do not like to spend on free agents, so when draft picks don't turn out to be any good the team suffers.
A year from now you'll be wishing you had Garrett. McCarthy will be a liability and his hubris will cost you at least one game.
Only if he's sure it'll make him a media/celeb darling. That's all he and The Artist Formerly Known As Bruce really care about.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Yeah, funny thing. It's almost like football is a team sport or something crazy like that.
Nah, that can't be it. If they had Tom Brady they would have won at least a dozen.
Yes, that is true. The Super Bowl is always won by the team with the best QB. I keep reading about all the physical damage football does to players, and the solution is just so obvious. I mean, what are all those nobodies running around hitting each other doing out there? The QB is the only player that matters, so they should just take all those 350 pound monsters off the field. I am assured that they don't contribute to winning games anyway. Just put the two QBs out there and let them play head-to-head. The best QB still wins, and nobody gets hurt. If football were a team game this wouldn't work, of course, but anyone who thinks Troy Aikman, for example, was a great QB should definitely like my idea.
Of course it is a team sport, but people who down play QB's Aikman and Bradshaw make me laugh. Yes, they both had great players around them, but they were also great QB's that did their part making these teams great and win 7 SB's between them.
If I have ever given the impression that I am giving the QB less than 1/22 of the credit, then I apologize. Of course the QB does his part, just as everyone else does theirs.
Bradshaw NOT a great QB! NOT NOT NOT!
1/22 is a little silly...…...more like 1/2 + !
A perfect example is the Minnesota Vikings, when the offensive line gives Kirk Cousins time, he looks great, when they don't he looks average at best.
If they can get at least one new guard who can pass block for next year Cousins will look better.
Also when Dalvin Cook is gaining good yardage running, Cousins gets a LOT better.
Dan Marino was one of the greatest passers ever. No championships. Not because he wasn't great, because most of his teams were not that good. He did play for a couple of good Miami squads early in his career.
I wouldn't call Marino great. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is a 7. He got most of his stats when throwing to Duper and Clayton who were 2 GREAT receivers in that time period. He had some very good teams playing with him. When they got to a SB they ran up against a better 49'er team. And during Marino's years Miami played against some very good teams that knocked them out of the playoffs. Just bad timing for Dan.
Think about that. The winner of a football game is the team that scores more than the other team. I can think of no possible argument that offense is more valuable than defense. Can you?
No, you can't, at least not without embarrassing yourself. So since, on average, a team's offense is worth 50% of the team's value, you have assigned 100% of the team's offensive value to one of the 11 players. Running backs? No value. Receivers? No value. Linemen? No value. Now, are all QBs worth 1/11 of a team's offensive value? Of course not, some are probably worth as much as 20% of that 50%. Not Bradshaw and certainly not Aikman, but great QBs could be worth as much as 10% of the value of an average team. On a team where the offense was great and the defense was poor, I could see how that could theoretically rise as high as 20%. Ken Anderson, for example, may have been worth that much to the Bengals in some years. But teams with defense bad enough to create numbers that high don't win championships, so if you're looking at QBs with "rings", then 10% is probably about as high as a QBs share could get.
30% of all NFL QBs better than Marino.
UNBELIEVABLE!
What are the odds the Chiefs win the Super Bowl?
What would the odds be without Mahomes?
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Marino at #10 all time, all players, not just quarterbacks.
Jon, sometimes I think you must be drunk.
https://pro-football-reference.com/leaders/av_career.htm
I'd say 0%; I don't think any team could win a Super Bowl without a quarterback.
Or a left tackle.
True. Kind of a silly question, wasn't it?
I guess I just assumed the question was "What are the odds the Chiefs win the Super Bowl with Matt Moore at QB?"
Jerry Jones is the Cowboys problem. May he live on forever.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Vastly overrated. A decent tier two.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Trent Dilfer. Not 0%, but close.
Looks like the Giants at least, don't think Garrett is the worst offensive coordinator ever.
That list is wacko. They have Marino above Elway, Rodgers and Young!!!!! Give me a freaking break!
You have to be on something pretty strong to put any value on that list. LOL
OMG! There are 2 automatic wins for the Boy's next year! I read some of the remarks about Jason. Here is a clip. I almost spit out my soda!!
"I've known about Jason for a long time, not only through the general public as well-known as he is as head coach of the Cowboys," Judge said via the team website. "There were guys I worked with that I came across in my career at both Alabama and at the New England Patriots that worked with Jason through their time in Miami with him. They consistently all reflected on how smart he is, how great a teacher he is and how his perspective of the game was through a different lens than most coaches. And when he sees it, he's able to communicate it and paint that mental image to the players. And he does a fantastic job of making in-game adjustments.
The guy that wrote this is on some HEAVY drugs!!!
Not to totally dismiss what the guy wrote, however it seems he forgot perhaps the most important factor - motivation. That factor is probably true in every walk of life.
The great coaches, the great generals, the great leaders, etc, throughout history were all masters at motivating people.
Garrett couldn't motivate a Priest to read the Bible!
You have to be able to objectively judge talent. That's a very good list.
Shows you how good Tarkenton was for one thing!
Did you look at that list all the way down! Jim Brown was way down towards the bottom! The top 3 are correct for QB's, but from there on down it's not even in the same universe. Heck even Montana was way down towards the bottom. It's a wack list not worth reading.
This list is an attempt to do what I've been describing throughout this thread (and others). Defense gets half the value (if it isn't obvious to you why that is, do you really understand what football is?), offense gets half the value, and there are a series of formulas to allocate offensive and defensive value among the various positions and players. The results are necessarily flawed because football is a team sport and this method can only truly work in an individual sport like baseball.
BUT, the results appear to be directionally accurate with only a few head-scratchers. When you say that Montana is "towards the bottom", that's simply not true. He's tied for the 32nd most valuable player ever. And he's also miles and miles ahead of so-so QBs like Bradshaw and Aikman. With regards to Jim Brown, a career list like this is going to punish RBs in the same way baseball lists punish catchers - RBs don't play as long. Brown's AV is a little over 1 per game, putting him ahead of Tom Brady who's listed in first. In 1960, Brown scores at 21 - in a 12 game season! Nobody else in history approaches that. In other words, AV is recognizing Brown as the GOAT, and you're criticizing it because it has him ranked too low.
My point is not to defend the AV list as gospel, because it's not. It is an attempt to allocate value among every member of every team, and it's done a better job of it than anyone here, myself included, could come close to doing off the top of their heads. Spend time looking at it and thinking about it and you'll learn something, guaranteed.