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Help recognizing artificial purple toning on ASE

AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

Thought I'd share some recent pickups. I'd like to continue buying purple silver but not if they're doctored junk.

I could please use a little help with detecting artificial toning in blue/purple/lavender colors if anyone has any pointers. What are some of the "pickup points"? What did I miss, and where? (If you could see the photos please).

I see areas on some of the eagles where it looks air "seeped" into their capsule or holder. Or where it looks like the toning is slowly "dragging" itself across the surface?

The big purple splotches on liberty's skirt (and the small color on reverse) makes me think that one's definitely artificial, yes? I think that smaller area with more focused colors is where gas was released from a hose, correct?

The orange toned one in the picture with two eagles is also fake, right? It's the one on the right but also pictured right before the two eagles.

Thank you very much in advance for any and all help and I hope you folks enjoy.









Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO all toning is artificial as it is introduced/caused by an outside source whether intentionally or not. No doubt that silver will react to a stimulus.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TunisTunis Posts: 429 ✭✭✭✭

    I am far from an expert but I think all of the ASEs pictured are “naturally toned”. When I inherited my fathers collection, I received many coins that had this same purple toning. Some look nice but for the most part, they didn’t tone evenly.

    Successful buys on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Learn what PCI toning patterns look like and stick with those that are clean with minimal spotting. IMO, nearly everything else on eBay is contrived. Shame, there was a time when this wasn't the case.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Determining the difference between AT and NT used to be a simpler task.... Not any longer... there are skilled individuals with processes that impart tarnish in such a manner that no one can conclusively determine the difference. Sure, wild colors will often be a warning sign.... but subtle discoloration, with gradual shades will fool the most discerning eye. As long as collectors pay premiums for tarnish, the charade will continue. Buying tarnished coins is much like the current trend of purchasing jeans with holes already in them... they are - and always will be - damaged goods. Cheers, RickO

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    IMHO all toning is artificial as it is introduced/caused by an outside source whether intentionally or not. No doubt that silver will react to a stimulus.

    This!

    The colors as shown probably happened "naturally" due to contact with a high sulfur holder, often just low-quality cardboard. As I've said many times - and been roundly booed every time - there is little point in trying to make the AT/NT distinction.

    The better question is whether the color is STABLE rather than NATURAL. If those coins all end up black in 20 years, are you going to be satisfied because they turned black "naturally"?

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve always looked at AT as accelerated toning and NT as induced toning whether or not it was intentional. Generally I look for how the toning lays on the coin. When a color has harder lines, flows over relief areas, has unusual colors, etc. I’ll consider it AT. When I see coins with more subtle colors, it lays on the fields differently than the devices, the color progression is more typical, then I think of it as NT. My definitions won’t exactly correspond with other people’s definitions.

    Most of the toned coins I have are either sourced from a GSA Morgan, were in an original mint set I acquired, or were in the possession of people I know, etc.

  • AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2020 6:31AM

    @Tunis said:
    I am far from an expert but I think all of the ASEs pictured are “naturally toned”. When I inherited my fathers collection, I received many coins that had this same purple toning. Some look nice but for the most part, they didn’t tone evenly.

    I thought so too which is why I posted. Generally I'm not very accurate on these things, but for the most part, all of them look like coins/bars/rounds that I got from my grandfathers and dad.

    @ricko said:
    Determining the difference between AT and NT used to be a simpler task.... Not any longer... there are skilled individuals with processes that impart tarnish in such a manner that no one can conclusively determine the difference. Sure, wild colors will often be a warning sign.... but subtle discoloration, with gradual shades will fool the most discerning eye. As long as collectors pay premiums for tarnish, the charade will continue. Buying tarnished coins is much like the current trend of purchasing jeans with holes already in them... they are - and always will be - damaged goods. Cheers, RickO

    Thankfully the prices were very low and there's not much to lose here but a few bucks over spot. If I had Barber or Seated that had color like this, though? hard pass all day every day :-(

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Toning is toning regardless of if it's "natural" or "artificial". Environmental damage period. The only difference is the time it takes to create each.

    IMO all toned coins are flawed and once they exhibit the nasty should never straight grade. Dip em all I say! Regards!!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Of course dipping is removing metal and thus removes some originality so shouldn’t be straight graded. :smile:

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:
    Of course dipping is removing metal and thus removes some originality so shouldn’t be straight graded. :smile:

    I said dip not polish. No metal is removed, just the nasty environmental damage. Classic restoration.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @TurtleCat said:
    Of course dipping is removing metal and thus removes some originality so shouldn’t be straight graded. :smile:

    I said dip not polish. No metal is removed, just the nasty environmental damage. Classic restoration.

    My understanding is that classic dip is an acid and has a small impact on a coin’s surfaces. Hence the reason why you don’t want to overdip coins.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2020 10:29AM

    In a world of toxicity, it's all natural. Time and the environment have a way of tarnishing metal, in spite of what "experts" think.

  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Toning is toning regardless of if it's "natural" or "artificial". Environmental damage period. The only difference is the time it takes to create each.

    IMO all toned coins are flawed and once they exhibit the nasty should never straight grade. Dip em all I say! Regards!!

    Implementing this policy would simplify our hobby. We could do away with the term 'luster'.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    IMHO all toning is artificial as it is introduced/caused by an outside source whether intentionally or not. No doubt that silver will react to a stimulus.

    How can natural oxidation of metals be artificial. Does your car get artificial rust on the frame? All silver needs is an atmosphere with reactive gasses in it. No stimulus required. That is why naturally occurring wire silver is always black.

    thefinn
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2020 12:46PM

    @thefinn said:
    All silver needs is an atmosphere with reactive gasses in it. No stimulus required.

    And the reactive gasses are not a stimulus. In its natural state silver is not toned.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Tom147Tom147 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm !!!! AT vs NT ? All toning is AT ? All toning is bad ? I think we all need to sit down together in a room and have this discussion. I'm sitting by the door. LOL

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @thefinn said:
    All silver needs is an atmosphere with reactive gasses in it. No stimulus required.

    And the reactive gasses are not a stimulus. In its natural state silver is not toned.

    That's right. The gasses are reagents. Now if you add heat or UV light, then you have your stimulus.

    thefinn

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