Very sad.

COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 2, 2019 2:31PM in U.S. Coin Forum

A gentleman called me yesterday and wanted me to come Appraise some coins for him. We set up a meeting for this morning. He told me it was mostly silver dollars he has been buying from a "military buddy". The gentleman pulled them out and immediately I knew the horrible truth...... 328 of the 350 of them were fake. I explained this to him and he couldnt believe it. He is not a coin collector he was only buying them to invest for his future. He thought he was safe because he knew this guy for over 30 years and he was in the military with him and the guy said he had been collecting coins for 45 years. The guy he bought them with has since moved and they havent talked in about a year. This is the part of the job I hate. The guy was devastated! Theres alot more dollars then are in the picture

www.coinsmakecents.com

Comments

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely sad. Thank you for posting about what happens sometimes out there in the real world.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a significant case of fraud and betrayal of trust, using a friendship to take advantage of someone with money to invest. I would recommend he contact his state consumer affairs department, the state AG and a lawyer for legal remedies of which there should be many. One PI charged me $30 to do a skip trace on a crook and I followed that up with a lawyer. Or he could use true people search to try to locate him, one step in getting his money back.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 21,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    People like this seller make me sick. I suppose he sold them as UNC too! Are they silver? That many silver Dollars are worth something in bullion.

    Canadian Dimes Set
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  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    That is a significant case of fraud and betrayal of trust, using a friendship to take advantage of someone with money to invest. I would recommend he contact his state consumer affairs department, the state AG and a lawyer for legal remedies of which there should be many. One PI charged me $30 to do a skip trace on a crook and I followed that up with a lawyer. Or he could use true people search to try to locate him, one step in getting his money back.

    Yes I recommended he get in contact with an attorney he and his wife agreed they are doing that first thing tomorrow!

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any way this crime can be reported to the police? In my previous life, I took cases like these forward, successful prosecution and restitution. Repeated contact with the suspect can be a plus, victim probably knows more than he realizes. IMHO. Peace Roy

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:
    People like this seller make me sick. I suppose he sold them as UNC too! Are they silver? That many silver Dollars are worth something in bullion.

    No none of them are silver except the few real ones he did have

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭

    Wow that is sad. How much did he pay for them?

    Young Numismatist here. Enjoy collecting coins and selling items to fund my collection

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  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 139 ✭✭✭

    Can you let us know the indicators that helped you identify the coins as fake?

    And do the fakes have any value? I.e. are they made of silver?

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 21,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @DIMEMAN said:
    People like this seller make me sick. I suppose he sold them as UNC too! Are they silver? That many silver Dollars are worth something in bullion.

    No none of them are silver except the few real ones he did have

    Oh Man.....that is terrible. I hope the law can find this low life and make him pay.

    Canadian Dimes Set
    Washington Quarters All Varieties 32-64
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  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:
    Can you let us know the indicators that helped you identify the coins as fake?

    And do the fakes have any value? I.e. are they made of silver?

    Most of the coins are way wrong in weight . Others have aspects of the coin are wrong like the font and size of the date or just an overall mushy experience

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Namvet69 said:
    Any way this crime can be reported to the police? In my previous life, I took cases like these forward, successful prosecution and restitution. Repeated contact with the suspect can be a plus, victim probably knows more than he realizes. IMHO. Peace Roy

    I'm sure when he contacts a lawyer they will advise him the best steps to take

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭✭

    There are some real lowlifes in this world. He will get what he deserves in the end.

    Trade $'s
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 11,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019 3:18PM

    How much is he out, or did he say? Depending on the state laws, the dollar amount dictates the level of penalty for the thief.

    2nd class collector of NON-PREMIER COINS.....according to PCGS.

  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:
    Wow that is sad. How much did he pay for them?

    WAY TOO MUCH

  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PA has a serious
    Theft by deception statute. just saying.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 29,166 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh my! :'(

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 15,232 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a damn shame. I hope he recovers his money or that karma takes care of his "army buddy".
    Lance.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The victim does not need an attorney, when he reports this crime the state's attorney is his attorney, either a DA or AG. Police use Lexus Nexus to find anyone. Victim already paid too much for this thing.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019 4:07PM

    Lots of problems from realistic standpoint in recovering his money and/or prosecuting the army buddy (I have close ties with an attorney who is a friend of mine and have had numismatic oriented conversations with him in the past). First, how could it be proven that they are the same coins...second, what if the army buddy didn't know they were fake. Third, it sounds like the army buddy has left the state. Four, lawyers are very expensive (that sage advice is rarely realistic but is all too common). Five, what record is there that a sale took place? Most likely was done in cash with no trail. Six, how do you know he wasn't the real perp, playing dumb in order to deflect consequences if you realized they were fake?

    It sounds like the 5-10k meant a lot to him. If it's true, I feel sorry for him. Not everyone is the military is a saint, far from it. Some people don't quite realize that.

    Rule of Acquisition #9: "Opportunity plus instinct equals profit."

  • markelman1125markelman1125 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I noticed that if you look close some of the coins, they look counterfeit. Of example the 1902 and the 1883 look too small and the silver eagle proof seems to not be a real proof. It’s hard to notice these characters if you are not experienced in collecting. I hope the collectors luck will turn for the better after this tough lesson. My advice is if you are not sure if you can tell are real Morgan form a fake, it’s best to get graded coins or purchase from a well known trusted dealer with good reviews.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not everyone who claims to be military or veteran are actually one... there are more fake veterans than those who are serving or actually served. IMO.

    I’d like to hear/read more about this via court documents. That’ll be interesting.

  • kazkaz Posts: 7,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man, that is really sad. Must have been hard to give him that news. And to think that they were long term "friends."
    What a kick in the gut.

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mapleman said:
    PA has a serious
    Theft by deception statute. just saying.

    This guy doesnt live in PA so what does that have to do with it?

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭

    To give the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that his buddy is being fooled as well from someone else. The buddy is getting them at a "good" price and making a few bucks reselling to his friend. Perhaps both are being scammed...

  • savitalesavitale Posts: 672 ✭✭✭✭

    That is sad. Where does one get 328 fake silver dollars anyway?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 10,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @savitale said:
    That is sad. Where does one get 328 fake silver dollars anyway?

    aliexpress. Cost you about $400 total with shipping if they aren't made of silver.

  • markelman1125markelman1125 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019 7:27PM

    @COINS MAKE CENTS, Out of curiosity, witch coins are real ?

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @markelman1125 said:
    @COINS MAKE CENTS, Out of curiosity, witch coins are real ?

    The real ones aren't in the pic. I only took these 2 pics real quick because I felt it was necessary to educate. At this point the gentleman was very distraught

    www.coinsmakecents.com

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 2,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This may sound crazy, but maybe the seller didn't know? Possible if they had a long friendship. If it was me I would make every effort to contact the seller without letting on I knew they were fake. At a minimum establish contact info. Then go from there.

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019 9:02PM

    Sometimes a magnet can come in handy.

  • FlackthatFlackthat Posts: 109 ✭✭✭

    Very sad, I hope he can recover some of the money spent.

    ANA Member
    PCGS Platinum Member

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019 10:27PM

    Wow. This is a reason I encourage everyone to seek out TPG forums like this.

    When I first started collecting again, I noticed TPG slabs and immediately started to look for places to chat about them which is how I ended up here.

  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @mapleman said:
    PA has a serious
    Theft by deception statute. just saying.

    This guy doesnt live in PA so what does that have to do with it?

    Perhaps such statutes exist where he resides? Something to consider. Btw where does he live?
    Pretty sad story IMO.

  • rickoricko Posts: 69,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is very sad.... I hate to see good people scammed. People just do not realize how much there is to know about coins and all the variables encountered. Not to mention the multitude of scam artists out there. I hope this fellow recovers his money.... Let us know if anything develops on this issue. Cheers, RickO

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Grrrr.... this makes my soul hurt... I hope the guy can get at least some of his money back.

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How old is the victim? Some jurisdictions go out of their way to prosecute elder abuse.

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  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did the "military buddy" tell the buyer that he acquired the coins in Afghanistan?

    The reason I ask is that there have been news stories about local merchants selling fake silver dollars to US service personnel stationed there.

    :)

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  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 20,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what a bummer. i hope it all works out and you get your money back. (to bad you lost a friend out it as well)

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,216 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the fact that he lost a bunch of money is sad, but what I think is much sadder is that a friendship is now lost!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 11,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Horrible.
    So sad.

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019 10:08PM

    @PTVETTER said:
    I think the fact that he lost a bunch of money is sad, but what I think is much sadder is that a friendship is now lost!

    There never was a friendship to be lost. It takes two to be friends. In this case, the dupe only imagined that the duper was his friend. The duper knew all along that the dupe was just that; a dupe. No friendship involved. Straightforward crime.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 10,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hydrant said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    I think the fact that he lost a bunch of money is sad, but what I think is much sadder is that a friendship is now lost!

    There never was a friendship to be lost. It takes two to be friends. In this case, the dupe only imagined that the duper was his friend. The duper knew all along that the dupe was just that; a dupe. No friendship involved. Straightforward crime.

    Assuming that the other guy - if he even exists - knew they were fake.

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