Question for the Jefferson Nickel Collectors...

erwindoc

How often can you find FS nickels that are graded but not listed as FS? Is it rare? Is there a certain generation of holders(either NGC or PCGS) that it is more common in?

davids5104

I have never found any that were already graded. I think it is because that designation is free and offered with submission the way FT/FB are for dimes. I do not know what slab generation nickels were in when they started designating FS as part of the evaluation of the coin. That is interesting though

mannie gray

I can't speak to the generations of the holders but in the many slabbed Jeff's I have looked at I have noticed this: before the + grade was started, often the graders would do one of two things and it seemed to be entirely random....I noticed this on already graded coins and coins that I submitted (I always kept detailed notes on the coins I sent in)....
If a coin was almost FS or fully FS with a small tick, they would either bump the grade or give it FS anyway.
So you have a 39-D for example, that was a 65 with strong steps but maybe not good enough on a"bad day"...
It would be graded as either a 66 or 64FS.
Hardly ever would it be graded "properly" (my opinion only) as a 5.

So I guess my advice here would be to look at 66 coins.
You may have some FS hiding there.

JeffersonFrog

There was a time 10-15 years ago when I thought it was clear NGC was much harder on FS than PCGS (and PCGS was much harder on numerical grade than NGC). The two pictures below are both 40-D Jeffs. The first one is in an NGC coin that did NOT merit the FS designation. The second one is a PCGS coin that DID merit the FS designation (but did NOT at NGC - I cracked it out and had it graded).

Long way of saying, I think old NGC holders (not necessarily fatties, but before the prongs) have Jeffs in them that are FS coins. How many; what percentage? Who knows. This many years into Internet commerce, it takes [me] more work to find these little treasures.

The above intentionally ignores the rhetorical, unsolvable, hotly contested, frequently annoying, "what really constitutes a FS coin?" question.

My five cents worth.

.

toyz4geo

@JeffersonFrog said:
There was a time 10-15 years ago when I thought it was clear NGC was much harder on FS than PCGS (and PCGS was much harder on numerical grade than NGC). The two pictures below are both 40-D Jeffs. The first one is in an NGC coin that did NOT merit the FS designation. The second one is a PCGS coin that DID merit the FS designation (but did NOT at NGC - I cracked it out and had it graded).

Long way of saying, I think old NGC holders (not necessarily fatties, but before the prongs) have Jeffs in them that are FS coins. How many; what percentage? Who knows. This many years into Internet commerce, it takes [me] more work to find these little treasures.

The above intentionally ignores the rhetorical, unsolvable, hotly contested, frequently annoying, "what really constitutes a FS coin?" question.

My five cents worth.

.

Great insight. Thank you.

erwindoc

@toyz4geo said:

@JeffersonFrog said:
There was a time 10-15 years ago when I thought it was clear NGC was much harder on FS than PCGS (and PCGS was much harder on numerical grade than NGC). The two pictures below are both 40-D Jeffs. The first one is in an NGC coin that did NOT merit the FS designation. The second one is a PCGS coin that DID merit the FS designation (but did NOT at NGC - I cracked it out and had it graded).

Long way of saying, I think old NGC holders (not necessarily fatties, but before the prongs) have Jeffs in them that are FS coins. How many; what percentage? Who knows. This many years into Internet commerce, it takes [me] more work to find these little treasures.

The above intentionally ignores the rhetorical, unsolvable, hotly contested, frequently annoying, "what really constitutes a FS coin?" question.

My five cents worth.

.

Great insight. Thank you.

Agreed! FWIW, the one on the left looks FS to me!

ricko

We still cannot enlarge the pictures, however, with what I can see, the nickel on the left appears to be FS....Cheers, RickO

ChrisH821

@ricko said:
We still cannot enlarge the pictures, however, with what I can see, the nickel on the left appears to be FS....Cheers, RickO

Right click, open image in new tab. But these ones are small anyway so no real difference

JeffersonFrog

Wow, that small picture was taken in 2006! Cameras have come along way ....

davewesen

@mannie gray said:
I can't speak to the generations of the holders but in the many slabbed Jeff's I have looked at I have noticed this: before the + grade was started, often the graders would do one of two things and it seemed to be entirely random....I noticed this on already graded coins and coins that I submitted (I always kept detailed notes on the coins I sent in)....
If a coin was almost FS or fully FS with a small tick, they would either bump the grade or give it FS anyway.
So you have a 39-D for example, that was a 65 with strong steps but maybe not good enough on a"bad day"...
It would be graded as either a 66 or 64FS.
Hardly ever would it be graded "properly" (my opinion only) as a 5.

So I guess my advice here would be to look at 66 coins.
You may have some FS hiding there.

homerunhall answered a question many years back saying frequently that is what they did.

Raybo

This was graded MS67 without the FS designation by NGC, I paid $15 for it in the late '90's and sent it back for reconsideration in 2013 or so (?).
It came back MS67 FS.

BigDowgie

Good insights! My experiences have not really found many true full step coins in non-full step holders from any services. If the steps are there, they make the designation. If questionable, I don't want them, for the most part.

About 5 years ago I did run across a dealer that must have graded a whole roll of 1938-Ds all graded by NGC. Non were FS designated. I pulled several MS67 and MS66 coins, didn't bother with MS65s, sent a few at a time to PCGS and they all crossed. Not sure what NGC was thinking on this batch? Must have been a rookie day!

gonzer

It seems NGC was brutally stingy handing out FS designations years ago. Clearly Raybo's coin was deserving initially. Hopefully they've remedied this.

Jimnight

Interesting.

Ronyahski

@davewesen said:

@mannie gray said:
I can't speak to the generations of the holders but in the many slabbed Jeff's I have looked at I have noticed this: before the + grade was started, often the graders would do one of two things and it seemed to be entirely random....I noticed this on already graded coins and coins that I submitted (I always kept detailed notes on the coins I sent in)....
If a coin was almost FS or fully FS with a small tick, they would either bump the grade or give it FS anyway.
So you have a 39-D for example, that was a 65 with strong steps but maybe not good enough on a"bad day"...
It would be graded as either a 66 or 64FS.
Hardly ever would it be graded "properly" (my opinion only) as a 5.

So I guess my advice here would be to look at 66 coins.
You may have some FS hiding there.

homerunhall answered a question many years back saying frequently that is what they did.

I third this. For years PCGS systematically followed this grading idiosyncrasy.