Options
Crossing a PL Coin
PhilLynott
Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭
I crossed over an NGC MS65PL and got the grades today and it crossed at MS65. I left the minimum grade part blank because it says if you do that it will assume the minimum grade is what's on the holder. I assumed that would include the PL designation am I incorrect about that? If that is the way it is oh well I got a super expensive true view I guess lol. If it's not supposed to be that way is it a mechanical error perhaps?
I guess I could have waited til I got the coin in hand for all I know it has PL on the holder but I'm sitting here literally waiting for paint to dry so I can put another coat on so here I am asking
0
Comments
check the cert number thru cert verification
that should tell u
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
It just has it listed as an MS65 on the cert page.
probably not a PL
PL coins show PL in cert verification
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Oh I know it's not listed as PL that's not my question. My question is whether it's correct that they crossed a 65PL coin as a 65 without PL. It says minimum grade is what's on the holder so I just assumed that included the PL part.
I've wondered about this too. Does PCGS support the PL designation in the minimum grade for crossing?
I would like to know the answer to that question myself.
I have been looking for Raw PL or DMPL Morgan's for a couple months and I get so frustrated with eBay especially, years ago you could see some very nice Morgan's examples, now it seems to be a contest to see who can take the worst picture with a Cell Phone, the polishing, artificial frosting that seems to be painted on and of course the dirt that was left behind gathering around stars and letters. What a waste...
Are all the DMPL
And PL Morgan's gone forever?
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Yeah you would think it would have to also make PL to successfully cross. Similarly if you crossed a 67FH SLQ I don't think they'd cross it at 67 without FH since they know there are premiums attached to designations.
Hoping that's the case at least and it was just a mechanical error but anyone who knows for sure please chime in.
I hate being a Monday morning quarterback but a phone call to PCGS might have been a good idea especially with the new designation.
Specify minimum grade on form if crossover. I only cross at same grade or above. Does the change in blue sheet bid value even justify the crossover expense on that one? Did you put MS65 PL on form as minimum grade?
What is date / mm for coin so I can see what you lost on downgrade (CDN Bid).
I checked this for 81-s dol blue sheet bid same for respective grades for both TPG in 65 or 65 PL but if you went from 65 PL to just 65 you lost around $100 in gs bid value.
I advise my clients to weigh potential changes in value vs submission costs and specify minimum grade on form to avoid downgrade risk / loss.
Right but if you don’t specify a minimum grade it says the minimum grade will be what’s on the holder. The question is if that includes designations on the holder.
I will call once I have coin in hand just thought I’d ask here first.
You should probably pose this question to PCGS. Perhaps they will either upgrade it to the PL designation, or at least take the coin back for a free reconsideration for the PL designation.
I tried a few weeks ago to cross an 1884CC DMPL MS64 that resides in a small old ANACS holder. IMO it's a 64 all day but it is toned. I wondered if it didn't cross due to them not agreeing with the DMPL. No explanation given and none expected but I was curious. I'm glad to have it back and learned an expensive lesson about trying to cross over.
Sorry if you did in fact lose the PL designation, hopefully you'll get good news tomorrow. GL
Why would anyone think that the PL designation might be treated differently than other designations? That really is Monday morning quarterbacking.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My 1890-CC MS64 DMPL in an older ANACS holder crossed over to PCGS as an MS63 PL. I only specified to cross at any grade, not PL/DMPL designation.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
That’s about a 70 pct loss in GS bid value 2900 to 875. Ouch! Inventory writedown down / sch c loss.
I have about 15 coins that are anacs / ICG but all cost in them less than $50 each some less than $20 immaterial in terms of cross consideration. So I just keep them as is. Occasionally will move one. One that sold lately online ($150) a world coin (bought last year) doubled my money on it. Another ICG world coin sold it at a show $50 (about cost plus 50 pct had it 2-3 yr).
Just an update in case anyone was curious (especially since no one seemed to know definitively). As expected, or mainly as I hoped, it was just a mechanical error and coin is on the way back to get the PL designation added.
Glad to hear the news, as pl adds a lot, but can vary a lot from service to service.
@PhilLynott....Thank you for the update....and happy to hear you will keep the designation...Cheers, RickO
So wait a minute... They crossed your 65PL coin to 65 no PL, put it in a 65 holder, the database showed 65, sent it back to you, then only upon a call to CS they said it was in error and it actually should be 65PL? This sounds to me like if you hadn't called the coin would have officially "become" a non-PL 65...
Collector, occasional seller
Yes that's correct but no different than any other mechanical error if you don't call the label and database will be inaccurate.
I have seen a few I wanted to take a gamble on but it seems with the right angle and light 💡 many a Morgan’s can appear PL & DMPL
would be interested in pics!
Another question would be that if you specify minimum grade as 65PL, and they call it 66 non-PL, what would they do? The only PL coin I tried to cross, I wrote "cross only if PL" on the holder, because the higher grade without PL wouldn't have been as desirable.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
It seems to me as if both the numerical grade AND the designation must meet or exceed the specified minimum in order for the coin to cross.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Crossing a PL is a no brainer but I’m still on the fence about crossing a DPL to PL. I’m hoping PCGS will add more DMPL.
I agree, although there are examples for either side of the argument. An 81-S Morgan in 68 is worth multiples of a 67PL, while a 21-D in 64PL is worth multiples of a 65. At the end of the day, however, what matters is what the people in the pipeline directing your slab to the band saw think. The guidance on the PCGS submission pages is unclear in this respect, actually, so being explicit on the submission form as to your wishes is prudent.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Hey there! Feel free to shoot me an email with all of the information including the new certification number. I can look it up in the system and sort out what is going on. I am happy to help in any way!
sfeltner@collectors.com
Steve Feltner
Steve Feltner
PCGS Director of Numismatic Education and Outreach
Thanks Steve, hopefully it will be all set. I sent pictures of the NGC label and the submission form and they agreed it was just a mechanical error and it's en route back to you guys now.
@PhilLynott did you opt for the TrueViews?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
I don't know how PCGS would handle this, but at NGC if the grade increases on a regrade then it is possible that the PL designation or Star might be removed. I specifically asked NGC this question several years ago.
As an example, if a collector submits a double eagle graded NGC MS62PL for regrade, because the collector believes the coin looks better than MS62PL, if the coin upgrades to MS63 or MS62+ it could lose the PL designation. For a common date PL double eagle, this would be a costly "upgrade."