1959 OGP Proof Set sold on EBay - Your thoughts?
SanctionII
Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
The reverse looks like the obverse.
2
SanctionII
Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Looks nice.
Think you've done it again?
Collector, occasional seller
I was an observer of the auction of this proof set.
It sold for over $360.00. Multiple bidders fought for the proof set in the last minute of the auction. I expect that the seller was very surprised at the high bid. I think the high bidder will likely be pleased with the half dollar, especially if it cleans up well.
$360+ for a common date proof set ... even with the cameo half ... no thanks.
For those of us who don't follow these sorts of items, what is the upside on this, such as the value of DCAM half?
that bid is suicide without a reverse picture.
1959 halves are very difficult in dcam. This one looks promising but definitely a risk based on those pictures. If you have the money to spare, why not go for it? If I saw the set I would have put in a bid.
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1959-pr/96700
Collector, occasional seller
I think I would have stopped at $20
The reverse was pretty solid also. I put in what I thought was a pretty nuclear snipe bid...but got blown out of the water with 3 people outbidding me on it.
The upside is there. A 67 CAM is worth $300, a 68 CAM is $1,800, 67 DCAM is $8-9,000; based on the pictures I wasn't going higher than the 67 CAM value.
Yikes, well I see cam but would not bet on it without "hands on" inspection - the DCAM bet too stiff IMO. Good looking out though!
Well, just Love coins, period.
i see a very expensive non-Cameo after a dip. you should be happy to have lost.
I see a return in the future.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
From the pictures of the obverse and reverse posted in the E Bay Auction listing for this proof set, I see a half dollar that has two sided frost that looks to be much heavier than any of the frosted 1959 half dollars I have cherry picked over the years. In addition to the frost on the bust of Franklin and on the Liberty Bell, the lettering, the numbering and the eagle also seem to be heavily frosted. The photos also show fields that may be deeply mirrored.
One unknown factor from the photos is whether any of the spots, marks and blemishes are on the surface of the half dollar or if they are on the cello. Further unknown is whether (if there are spots on the coin) the half dollar needs to be dipped and if so, whether a dip would be successful.
I see a lock Cameo half dollar inside the mint cello packaging, possibly at a high grade of at least a 67. There is also a possibility that the half may warrant a DCAM designation. Sure would like to find and buy a 1959 OGP set such as this one at a local shop or show.
I didn't bid on this one, but might have had I seen it. I consider buying proof sets on ebay to be like buying lottery tickets. You lose most of the time, but you can win big.
Here is a dcam for reference.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I'm not at all a proof aficionado. But there is no way I could see a DCAM from the pictures I'm seeing. My experience taking pictures has been it is very easy to make a coin look more cameo than it is!
Many of these, taken out of the hazy plastic and carefully curated/dipped end up with a major score. I see more upside than downside for the winner of this auction.
peacockcoins
Hmmm, well I'm not a proof buyer but the rev looks suspect to me for even cam much less dcam.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Half dollar will be hairlined. Also the pictured PCGS DCam is suspect as I have seen a couple that would only get Cameo by NGC (or maybe a Star). If the frost is not heavy it cannot be DCam. This seems to be a PCGS problem with a few different dates of different denominations. A good study of some finer known coins is wise before purchasing coins with Ultra heavy contrast especially a 59 Franklin being a tough date to find as such.
I can’t see a DCAM and based on the reverse, I don’t think a CAM is, by any means, “a lock”. Additionally, while, sure, the coin could grade 67, it could just as easily grade 65 or lower. You sound as if you’re optimistic about the upside, but ignoring the downside.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Did the auction have a return priv.? If so the downside is only the cost of return shipping...
The auction had a return privilege,
Mr. Feld. I am optimistic about the upside and am ignoring the downside (which I realize is present). Doing so is easy because I am just observing from the sideline.
The 1959 in cam or dcam is a very tough coin. With a return privilege it seems worth a look.
From the item description:
RETURNS: Lots are returnable only if NOT as described.
Item description:
ITEM DESCRIPTION: United States 1959 Proof Set in Original Envelope. This proof set was opened for inspection and remains in the original envelope in which it was shipped from the US Mint. The envelope has writing in pencil on the front (see scan). The lot pictured is the actual lot you will receive. Thanks for bidding!
Hopefully, the winning bidder won’t try to return the lot (simply) in the event that it doesn’t look better in hand, as that would be unfair to the seller.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Coin must grade 67 CAM to make $$$
Never a DCAM
Hairlines can not be seen thru the plastic
all that said 59's are not marred by hairlines. A milk spot yes, but that can be seen
Good luck to the winner
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Kevin, I see a one-sided Cameo coin with most of the frost on the reverse being lost when dipped because it isn't frost at all. it looks to me like haze and an artifact of the pictures that makes the reverse look frosted. add to that the very specious grade of PR67 and I arrived at my "Pass" assessment.
unfortunately, we will never know.
The plinth (or whatever that wooden piece the bell is secured too looks to not be cameo and the bell to have some non-cameo patchy bits, not to mention other possible surface deficits/issues. 360 just too much of a gamble IMO
Well, just Love coins, period.
but they do. And if the lottery player discovers he has a $20 proof set that he paid $360 for, he probably will. We can only hope that he has the decency to at least return it at his own expense.
True eBay story: I sold a PCGS 67 CAC Wisconsin commem for greysheet CAC bid on eBay. It was returned as "not as good as we thought". I take that to mean that they were hoping for a 68 and couldn't get one. The buyer was actually a DEALER!! But, as a dealer, he at least had the decency to return it at his expense and throw in a $10 bill to cover my shipping to him.
I hate to assume anything, but I bet most collectors would have just filed a SNAD and been done with it.
Interesting discussion.... I cannot really determine anything near conclusive from the pictures.... So, IMO, a gamble .... but, people gamble all the time, and some hit the jackpot.....Good luck to the winner... Cheers, RickO
If the buyer chooses to return the proof set because the half dollar is not, in hand, of the quality that the buyer hoped it would be that would be inappropriate.
In that scenario, by choosing to return the coin the buyer is attempting to shift the risk of loss for the buyer's gamble to the seller (I assume that if the coin is a winner and grades out at PF68 DCAM the buyer would not be willing to share any profit made on the coin with the seller
).
For some reason I do not think that Las Vegas casinos would be receptive to a gambler who just rolled snake eyes on the craps table asking for "a return"
For those who have commented that the coin looks (from the photo) to have attributes that would result in a TPG not awarding a Cameo or DCAM designation, one must keep in mind that judging the quality of a proof coin from a photograph is very iffy. The appearance of frost breaks and frost absences (i.e., on the plinth) on the reverse devices is not conclusive as to the quality of the coin. Many times an in hand inspection of a such coin (with the appearance in a photo like the pictured 1959 half dollar) will reveal that there is no frost break and that the appearance in the photo is due to lighting and angles. Other times the inspection of such a coin will reveal just the opposite.
For an auction such as the one for the pictured proof set, paying more than bid for the set is the same as rolling the dice at a craps table. You may roll a 7 or an 11, or you may roll snake eyes. That is part of the fun of playing in the hobby.
It would be very interesting if the winner of this proof set saw this thread and posted high quality photos of the half dollar cut our of the cello, after giving it a bath.
I'm surprised to see as much uncertainty as to whether the coin is even a CAM from some very knowledgeable individuals in the thread (@Keets @Segoja @MFeld). Recognizing there is no such thing as a true "Lock" in numismatics, I'd give this coin >80% shot at being at least a CAM based on my experience. I've seen a lot of photos on Ebay exaggerate the amount of contrast on a coin and they are usually pretty easy to spot, these photos don't have that look and I believe it's pretty hard to manipulate a photo to show this level of frost.
Signed...the guy that picked a 68DCAM 1958 half off of Ebay for $33.
Modcrewman spends a substantial amount of time playing in this niche area of the hobby pool. As a result his "spidey sense" is highly developed. He can devine from photos wheat from the chaff and diamonds in the ruff.
He is the guy that picked a 68DCAM half off of EBay for $33.00
sign me as the guy who has clipped coins from the cello, dipped them and had the contrast and apparent "frost" go away because it wasn't frost at all, just haze and the "cello affect" that sometimes happens.
Hey...I'm that guy too! LOL
The seller must be happy, so far.
I'm surprised anyone would bid that much given the very worn look of the cellophane plastic itself. That set looks like it has seen a lot of moving around since it was made 60 years ago!
Good point, it sure does look that way.
Collector, occasional seller
Me tooo!
Would have loved to see that set in hand before auction.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
My observations.............
strong wear on cellophane,
strong cameo potential for the half.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
This one is tough to call.
I would gamble on this if I saw it at a show and could pay bid or even 1.5-2x bid but that would not really be gambling as I am 60% that the half would CAM.
I wouldn't be willing to go higher than that, based on the images.
As to its grade, who knows.
It looks very unlikely to DCAM.
You're the expert, but that is exactly my impression. Like the rest I would like some followup on this one as to what it actually is.
Well, just Love coins, period.