Interesting tactic when selling a set...
TwoKopeiki
Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭✭✭
From CNG:
Important Note:
The coins and the original copper frame will be offered individually, after which the coins and the frame will be offered as a complete set with an opening bid of one bid over the aggregate hammer prices of the individual lots. If a bid is placed on the full set, the coins and frame will be sold as a complete set, and the bids on the individual lots will be canceled. If there are no bids for the complete set, the hammer prices on the individual lots will be honored.
5
Comments
That is goofy
This method has been used in the past by other auction houses.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
I'd be very angry as a bidder on an individual coin.
Collector, occasional seller
I have seen this before, I recall B&M auctioned a clock of off-center 1935 Buffalo nickels, a total of 12 coins each off struck at a different clock position. They took bids on the individual coins, then added up the total and used that as the opening bid for the entire set. I do not recall how it ended up selling.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Be a shame to break up an original set.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
This bidding format is one option to keep the set from being broken up. Does not always work.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
Seeing that reminds me yet again that poverty sucks.
Local dealer got one. Sold it exactly like that. Pieces and then whole thing.
This has been done for many years with PSA graded baseball card sets. Whichever yields the most money (individual bids combined or the complete set bid) will win the auction. As someone has already mentioned, sometimes this works very well to yield the most amount of money, but sometimes it doesn't as the individual bids lack as people are ticked off and don't bid because of the method used to determine the winner.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
This is a common auction technique for a full Pan-Pac Set with frame . . . . .
Drunner
I don't like it. I understand that it is done, that the rules are announced in advance, etc,, but I just don't like it.
Why do you think it’s “goofy”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was not aware of this auction method.... However, reflecting on it, I can see the logic. Cheers, RickO
This method has been used often by Heritage and other houses when selling original 19th century proof sets
Commems and Early Type
It's actually pretty common in auction circles.
I have a collection of signed quotations from notable people that I have collected myself, carefully selecting quotes that might compliment others in the collection. I will never consider the collection to be "complete" but once it is large enough (probably is already) I will organize it into several general categories in an album.
It does bother me a bit when I realize that one day when it transitions to someone else it will almost certainly be broken up and dispersed individually.
I saw this method used at an auction for lots of land, where 70 or so lots were split into 10 blocks that were then bid on as one unit. As long as the rules are clear up front it seems fine to me. I believe there was at least one person who "won" an individual lot and then "lost" it to a block buyer.
I have seen this at furniture auctions, among others.
Common as dirt.
So either bid the moon on the one you want, making the set too high or bid nothing, let each prices be low, and then go all in on the set.
.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Just GREEDY azz sellers trying to get the blood sucking most out of everything and screw the folks
that support them in the process......................
seen this a lot in land sales but never like this
That’s quite a conclusion you’ve jumped to. Another way to look at it is that it offers the possibility of letting more than one bidder win (one or more coins from the set). And, while apparently, you haven't seen it done with coins before, as others have said, it’s been done for a very long time with certain types of sets.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's a good way to attempt to keep a set like that together, but only if someone values that enough to pay for that privilege.
I suppose Heritage would NOT allow the same type of bidding should I choose to have them feature and auction my circulated Dansco set of Jefferson nickels? /s
peacockcoins
Of course not. But only because a set like that should only be offered as a set. And anyone wanting to bid on it would need to promise in writing to keep the set intact for the remainder of his or her lifetime.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed! (It's only missing all the "S" dates along with the war nickels and the 50-D. Otherwise, a complete set!)
peacockcoins
How's the '39 D ?
This practice was SOP for Bowers & Merena, Stacks, and others for some time, even before they merged. The Floyd Starr sale of proof sets was done this way, IIRC.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Attended an equipment auction years ago. One of the lots was a five unit man camp, 3 lodging units, 1 recreation unit and a kitchen unit. The auctioneer offered buyer choice for highest bid. A bidder won and selected only the kitchen unit. The auctioneer offered the remaining units in the same method, a different bidder purchased the remaining units. The individual who purchased the kitchen unit sold it to the purchaser of the other units before the auction was over that day. He tripled his money in just a few hours, the camp was not serviceable without the kitchen. Smart man. Probably does not apply to this particular coin lot, but interesting to see.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
Too worn to see the mintmark.
peacockcoins
Nothing more than bait and switch.
It's a shame to break up an original Pan Pac set in the original copper frame. Many years ago I read about an original Guttenberg Bible which is an extremely expensive and historically important book. The owner took it apart and sold each page separately to book collectors to maximize his profit. His greed destroyed a very historic book forever.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you think that’s “bait and switch”, you don’t understand what “bait and switch” is.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think they should either sell it as one lot, or break it up into multiple lots.
I'm seeing that. I'm sure it helps to maximize the hammer price, but I still think it's goofy. Sell it as one lot, or multiple, just pick one. ha ha. It's like the Schrödinger's cat of auctions.
Not really. It gets used for sets that make sense as a set but might also make sense as separate entities.
I've seen dining room sets sold that way. Because the pattern matches, they could stay together as a set, but you might also just want the table. In the case of the dining room set, it also prevents the whole set for selling for less than the cost of a single piece. Nonsense, you say? Au contraire. For a country auction where you have to take everything home, there might be one person in the room who would buy the whole set as a set. He has no other bidders because no one wants to haul it all home. So you force him to pay a reasonable price by letting the others set the price for the set.
It would make sense to sell almost any registry set that way, as well. It guarantees you get fair value for even the lesser coins in the set. It creates the opportunity to keep the set together. It also prevents the one or two people with pockets deep enough from underpaying for the entire set when there's no one to bid against them.
The goal in selling it that way is to try and keep it together while maximizing the price. You increase the price for the whole set by letting people value each piece separately. Then the small number of deep pocketed folks get the opportunity to keep the set together, but at a price probably higher than it would achieve if they just opened the bidding on the whole set.
Yes, another excellent example of where it makes sense. If you've got 1000 acres to sell at auction, the number of bidders for the entire 1000 acres is going to be very small, maybe only 1 or 2 developers. You will have more bidders for smaller size lots which helps set the minimum for the 1000 acre lot. Essentially you allow the unit sales to create competition for the 1 or 2 deep pockets.
First of all, I will happily buy all of your coins at the lowest possible price since that's how you think you should sell them. I assume face value is acceptable? Send me your PayPal address and the total face value of your collection. {end sarcasm} Of course coin sellers want to maximize their return. Only you want to sell your collection for face value to me. {return of sarcasm}
Second of all, this is an open auction that doesn't screw anyone. Everyone knows the terms up front and are free to bid (or not bid) whatever they wish.
Send it to Great Collections, they'll get it slabbed for you and auction it.
This is a typical auction tactic commonly used to squeeze the last buck out of the lot(s). It bums me out when something this cool gets broken up... but that said, in this instance I have a feeling that someone will step up to the plate and buy the whole works.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
How do we know, for sure, that frame was with that set from the beginning?
peacockcoins
Ok, I repent. You have converted me. I see the logic behind it in certain circumstances. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I appreciate it.
Hmmmmm. So, I'm certainly not in any position to even look at coins like that..... but the proposal rubs me the wrong way a bit. I appreciate the historical significance of the set and I'm all for keeping it together.... but why not just sell the whole thing with a reserve? If the reserve isn't hit, then proceed with individual sales of the items.
As the auctioneer, I'd want to be darn sure everyone bidding had a perfectly clear understanding of how it was going to work.
I've seen numerous instances in which, prior to the first of the provisional lots being sold, the auctioneer explained the procedure to those in attendance. Granted, that would not have helped on-line bidders who weren't watching a live feed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unicorn sighting - you have witnessed a respectful online exchange that actually changed someone's mind. Everyone play the lottery tonight.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Ha ha!
There is no way to know that the set is "original", just that it is complete.
Collector, occasional seller
@jmlanzaf said:
First of all, I will happily buy all of your coins at the lowest possible price since that's how you think you should sell them. I assume face value is acceptable? Send me your PayPal address and the total face value of your collection. {end sarcasm} Of course coin sellers want to maximize their return. Only you want to sell your collection for face value to me. {return of sarcasm}
Second of all, this is an open auction that doesn't screw anyone. Everyone knows the terms up front and are free to bid (or not bid) whatever they wish.....
Now you sound like a JERK (no sarcasm), don't play politics and try to put words in my mouth......
We now return you to your regularly scheduled internet, already in progress.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
This IS a form of bait and switch. The auctioneer should know the market AND the method to sell product for maximum value for the customer.
Auctioning the same item(s).....twice. Baited bidders with one auction....switched tactics and auction the same item(s)..again.