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Need an explanation why these error coins didn't get nicked up. Anybody know?
leothelyon
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Didn't these coins go though the hoppers and shipping with the rest of production?. I've always been amazed how mark-free these errors are. I don't recollect ever turning one down. Another thing, I've looked at these coins long and hard and can't find a mark on them but yet, they received only MS64-65 grades. Only one of the coins grade MS66. But I tell you, there are no marks except, maybe minor flecks on the rims/edge. I have a theory but first, what say you?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
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Many, many many error coins do get caught up in machinery and damaged. Many.
The highly collectible ones such as above are traded and graded because they are damage free.
Error collectors value undamaged coins. That is why you do not see photos of the damaged ones.
So....a coin that had just one distracting mark, no-one would bother to collect it or have it graded. I understand what you're saying, perhaps severe damage is what you're referring to. But there are 0 marks on the posted coins, 0.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Any Damage from a machine makes that coin not collectible in my opinion. A nick from another coin is not damage.
I think he's asking why they graded MS64/MS65 when they appear to be nicer than that.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
It depends on the service. MS 64 -65 at PCGS. MS 66 at NGC. Very common in my experience.
As mentioned, there are plenty of major
mechanical errors with edge/rim damage,
or surface scrapes, etc.
I can't tell you why those coins are only 64's or 65's,
and not 66's or 67's......to the grading services.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I assume that errors are graded a bit differently than normal coins. I also assume that it does not really matter to most error collectors. As long as there is no actual damage or heavy wear, who cares if it is MS65 or MS67?
I have a rare error that NGC graded MS66. I was surprised by that high grade as there were numerous marks consistent with its journey at the mint. But in the scheme of things all I really wanted was the error attribution.
Let me suggest with these type of errors made absent of or without the collar, they receive a more compacted strike. A coin with a more harder surface is more resilient against receiving hits/nicks from other coins. Is this possible? Anyone who can word this better are more than welcome to explain it better than I have.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
This is how I do it, comments welcome.
I grade the coin as a normal coin. With off-centers I grade the coin. I don't consider the planchet UNLESS it is severely nicked up more than usually seen or damaged (wheel, etc). Therefore, it is possible to have an error grade very high.However, if just a very small part of the design shows - and it perfect, I'm not going to grade the coin over 65 because in that cast the planchet is the main part of the piece.
I wouldn't think so. The impact force is the same. A 50 ton press has 50 tons of force. The only difference is one coin spreads laterally because it is unconstrained. If anything, shouldn't that offer stress release from the plastic deformation?
I'll pose this more as a question than an answer, since I don't know which side to take:
Some believe that some errors are covertly created, and clandestinely removed from the mint. So, one would assume, such a coin would have no transportation or circulation damage.
Does anyone think that MAYBE that would explain the condition of some error coins? (Or is that a baseless conspiracy theory, unworthy of discussion).
We know that coins have been removed from the mint on purpose.
It is probably partly true. Even if they get out of the mint normally, they likely don't get passed the rolling company. So they don't travel much. For nickel, in particular, which is a very hard metal, it really doesn't surprise me that there aren't many bag marks on them.
Perhaps being an "error" coin limits the grading scale along with other variables such as strength of strike, eye appeal, etc.
If you had a regular non-error coin that had no bag marks but had squishy mal-formed letters from die damage, would you give it a 69?
I think a better question is why they bother to grade errors on a sheldon scale at all. I mean, could you have an MS66 capped die when almost none of the features are even visible even though the surface is pristine?
Does an MS66 75% off-center strike make sense when you can only see 25% of the design and the coin is bent from striking?
I like that answer. It could simply be that an error coin will be identified and pulled from the "normal" chain of distribution much earlier than a completely unremarkable coin.
Would explain a lot...and not require us to assume "illegal activity".
I seriously doubt anyone would face a felony for a somewhat? common large broadstruck nickel error.
Now for a cent struck on a Sacagawea dollar, that is a different story and a huge price difference.
Some good answers/insight above...
You could also step back and ask, exactly what is being graded on an error coin? We know what a normal coin is supposed to look like and can judge how close it comes to being a perfect example of that. But for a one-off error, what is it "supposed" to look like? We can count nicks and scratches, but what constitutes "perfect"? It is by its very nature an imperfect coin.
We know that coins have been removed from the mint on purpose.
But the coins in the OP's initial post are
'normal' errors, not 'taken out' examples.
I've seen less damaged nickels (although there
are enough of 'em) than cents, dimes and quarters.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Don't know the answer to the OP's question, but I do like them.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
I always find error coins interesting...and always wonder how they left the mint.....never considered subsequent damage. Cheers, RickO
maybe this should have been a GTG to see what we think is the lone MS66, then we could proceed on to --- why.
I have a couple thoughts on this. I'd better write them down before they slip away!
With a "no collar" strike, I see the rim metal tends to be raised or thicker than normal. This means the surfaces of the coin are slightly more protected.
Another, might be that these samples are culled out earlier in the process, which eliminates a number of coin/machine contacts.
I still don't know how these misshaped error coins make their way out of the Mint in the first place!
Loe, good to see you're still banging away at these crazy Jeffersons. Love those steps! Wish we could put these in the Registry Set slots!
MS65 details yet PCGS graded MS61 net due to stamping issues.
The OP's question is an excellent one. I have no answer for it, other than that some normal coins do make it through the gantlet without getting all nicked up, so it must be possible.
A lovely collection of broadstruck nickels. Congratulations!
Their enlarged size makes me think of a neat hypothetical error that I assume does not exist....a quarter struck on a broadstruck nickel!
TD
Actually, my question was more of a backdoor approach to a more daunting problem concerning the grading of Jefferson nickels. The very hard element of nickel made this coin notoriously famous for its bad, weak strikes. My initial inquiry centered around whether a more compacted coin would receive fewer nicks by the illustrations of the broadstruck error coins. BTW, they most have very sharp full steps which IMO, would indicate a more powerful strike. And I think where the details did strike up, the thickness of the coin in that area is dime thin or less since much of the material of the planchet was pushed out into the peripherals of the error. And I believe it's possible these type errors....may have grew legs.
But coins that are stamped within their collars with worn working dies where there was little detail transferred onto the planchet, I'm thinking the metal in those coins with few details/devices to flow into are far more compacted than coins with full strikes thereby easily grading higher and more consistent than coins with full strikes. The size and weight of the planchet doesn't change. When the metal has fewer devices to go/flow into, the coin becomes thicker, more compacted.
If you still can't buy my theory, at least consider a coin with fewer details will receive less nicks/hits since there are less devices raised up/high points on the coin to receive nicks/hits. Of course, all one needs to do is scour the coins in Coinfacts or some registry sets to see coins with bad strikes with narily a mark on them nor devices to receive those marks.
And.....and did anyone notice all the errors are from Philadelphia?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Probably should look at non error coins lately might see opposite MS 64-65 at NGC and MS 66 at PCGS
Have you ever noticed that off center and broad struck Jeff. nicklels
are usually well struck on the steps. Just my observation.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Most are from ANACS, a couple may be PCGS. Haven't taken notice on the grades of which.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Except a nickel is actually composed of 75% copper.
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That's true. Perhaps I should have phrased it as the "nickel alloy" is very hard. That's why you see so many striking problems on that denomination and all the RPMs
”And.....and did anyone notice all the errors are from Philadelphia“
I have as well. I am slowly putting together a date run of them, all similarly matched.
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No error coin can be ms70 in my opinion so if all the high points are not there strike one. If the edge is nicked strike 2 and then you have watermarks, smudges, prints, luster etc....strike 3,4 Starting point is what does the best none error coin look like. Since they are flawed they start off with 2-3 points minimum IMHO
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