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Morton and Eden sale of The Mexico Collection

AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

If you have not done yet, take a look to the sale by Morton and Eden in November. They are selling hundreds of Mexican coins, some of them outstanding. And I think none are encapsulated. Some true rarities are there. Top collection I think.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was thinking of this sale when I made my recent comment about the recent (last decade) increase in supply of the Cap & Ray 4R. Many individual DMA combinations are scarce or rare in better grades but it isn't that hard to buy as type coin anymore in AU-58 or better. However, I haven't followed the series closely enough to know how this applies to each DMA combination.

    There are five or six "high quality" 4R in this sale. One or two look good enough form the images to obtain an MS-64 which I believe is the highest awarded grade in the TPG data.

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree @WCC , there are many rarities. A set of coinage from the Estado de Mexico, coins from Luis I, others. I think is a very interesting sale. Surprisingly very few portraits... This is a great collection.

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    JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These two would be my personal favorites.
    Unfortunately for me, the process of international auction bidding, were I don't truly understand all the in's and out's, bumps right up against the limits of my comfort zone.
    :/

    255
    Philip V (1700-1724), Royal Coinage, heart-shaped half-real, Mexico City, 1716 J

    304
    Republic, State of Zacatecas, ‘Flying Eros’ Coinage, pattern or proof quarter-real, 1833

    Charles III Album

    Charles III Portrait Set

    Charles IV Album

    Charles IV Portrait Set

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    YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree. Very few portraitsi

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019 12:36PM

    @JohnnyCache said:
    These two would be my personal favorites.
    Unfortunately for me, the process of international auction bidding, were I don't truly understand all the in's and out's, bumps right up against the limits of my comfort zone.
    :/

    In my experience is not that complicated. But I did send a bid for 304 :#

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    ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 777 ✭✭✭

    Would like to bid but can't tell much anything from the pictures or descriptions. "Mint State" doesn't cut it.

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    Crazy8sCrazy8s Posts: 70 ✭✭✭

    I had a chance to preview these auction coins at the USMexNA convention in AZ. The Repulica error coin was amazing and overall the condition of the collection was very nice. I am expecting my catalogue any day now, they were being printed while I was previewing the collection.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree on lot 255. I don't remember a Mexico heart coin. All I recall is Potosi though maybe Sedwick has sold others.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I looked at half of the coins in AZ and will finish viewing in London. Cool sale.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    gscoinsgscoins Posts: 288 ✭✭✭

    For those of you who have seen the coins in hand, could you opine on whether Morton & Eden's assertion (for some of the coins) of "mint state" quality is merited? I would be interested in bidding, but have some concern about doing so based on SixBid photos alone, especially since I have never done business with Morton & Eden.

    Thanks.

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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sent mine off to PCGS at the NYINC show. Will post the TV once they grade.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:

    What did they call them?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    What did they call them?

    Silver patterns. KM-Pn41 and KM-Pn100.

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are great. I wondered if you ended up with that Quartilla


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very very nice @pruebas

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How did you get the provenance on the slab ?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pn164? My Krause has a Brazilian 500 Reis listed under that Pn number.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Pn164? My Krause has a Brazilian 500 Reis listed under that Pn number.

    Seems right to me....

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Never mind - I thought Pn numbers were unique, but I see they are not... in any case - congrats on adding that beauty to your collection!


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki ok, I thought you knew that. They reuse KM numbers across each country, both the regular numbers and Pn numbers.

    I was happy with the grade. @MrEureka estimated 61 in-hand to which I agreed. It came back 63.

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    @TwoKopeiki ok, I thought you knew that. They reuse KM numbers across each country, both the regular numbers and Pn numbers.

    I was happy with the grade. @MrEureka estimated 61 in-hand to which I agreed. It came back 63.

    Had no idea. I rarely step outside of Mexico and only use Krause to look up relative scarcity through NGC's keyword search of Numismaster.

    On this coin, specifically, is it a pattern or an off-metal strike? Seems to be gold dies were used on a silver planchet and if that's a die crack on the obverse from 1:30 to 4 it would mean a later state die.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020 3:51PM

    @TwoKopeiki said:

    @pruebas said:
    @TwoKopeiki ok, I thought you knew that. They reuse KM numbers across each country, both the regular numbers and Pn numbers.

    I was happy with the grade. @MrEureka estimated 61 in-hand to which I agreed. It came back 63.

    Had no idea. I rarely step outside of Mexico and only use Krause to look up relative scarcity through NGC's keyword search of Numismaster.

    On this coin, specifically, is it a pattern or an off-metal strike? Seems to be gold dies were used on a silver planchet and if that's a die crack on the obverse from 1:30 to 4 it would mean a later state die.

    Good deduction! I thought the same.

    While these are listed as patterns in Krause, often times Buttrey-Hubbard (where these listings originated) listed them as off-metal strikes. That makes a lot more sense. The list includes silver cuartillas, copper strikes of silver/gold coins (inferior metal strikes), and third-party machine trials. Many of these are not listed as patterns in Buttrey-Hubbard but are so listed in Krause. Of course, Krause doesn't really have any other category under which to list them. In most cases, nobody really knows the exact original purpose of these things.

    I have a 5 centavo struck in gold (superior metal strike) which I believe to be an error, but could also be a presentation strike. But I bet if Krause listed it, it would also be under patterns, which it clearly isn't. [Come to think about that coin, I guess I need to send it to PCGS so I can show the TV here!]

    If I ever wrote my own book, I would be much more obsessive about my choice of categories. Until then, I just accept what others have written and go with the flow. :D

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas we have to see that 5 centavos coin!

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At the time of the sale I was a bit over spent. But I was able to get another coin form the sale. This is very challenging on high grades...

    Sale:

    TV:

    Thanks to Atlas Numismatics.

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice addition!

    Latin American Collection

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice @bidask

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 363 ✭✭✭

    This:
    https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3532&lot=367

    became this:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/MEXICO-1861-Mo-CH-AR-4-Reales-NGC-MS65-Mexico-City-KM-375-4-Inc-orig-envelope-/174230708860

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020 1:57PM

    Yes Atlas bought many of them. I’d have bought that one had the toning been a bit nicer. Solid coin though. Many seem to have been in envelopes for many years and have that dusky dark toning.

    Latin American Collection

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, they have several coins in their site from the sale. And during the sale they beat me on some coins I was bidding it looks...

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad I was there in person.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This coin bought raw is unbelieveable !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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