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How do you know if original surfaces on gold?
Leeroybrown
Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭✭
I wanted to open up a dialogue with the group to see what the concensus was from the forum on grading gold coins... specifically $20 Libs.
What are the key things to focus on?
Detail?
Fields?
Luster?
Color?
Rims?
Would love thoughts...
Whats the difference between a VF, XF, AU gold $20 Lib?
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Check Photograde on CoinFacts.
As @lcoopie said... there are reference materials available with pictures to help you understand better. That being said, there are no real standards, and the final judgement is really left to the individual. Cheers, RickO
Go to Doug Winter’s website and look at his inventory and his Coinapedia. That will provide you with excellent examples of what original surfaces look like on gold coins.
I look at the granular flow pattern under high power.
It takes me about 10 min/coin but I feel better when I'm finished.
My Saint Set
I have several of Doug Winters books, have studied coinfacts, watched his videos and interviews, studied photograde, as well as own multiple nice examples, of $20 Lib gold as well as Seated Dollars (my 2 passions)...
I am not asking for reference material as a novice as I have a great mentor and many references already... instead, I am interested in hearing more knowledgeable expert opinions on this topic?...
Rarely will you “know”.
However, you can look for clues, such as: the presence of copper spots, surfaces which aren't unnaturally light or bright, the absence of (some) reddish hues caused by the application of iodine, the lack of haze (sometimes the result of the application of putty), signs of cleaning, signs of spot removals or tooling and so on.
There is no easy, universal way to tell. But the more original examples you can view, the better your chances of recognizing the same look on others.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Your question will take a long time to answer. At your stage, the best thing you or anyone can do ABOVE ANYTHING mentioned so far (except for the post above) is to go to a big show and look at the coins you are interested in already graded by PCGS that are in MS-66, 67, 68 slabes with CAC stickers.
There are many experienced collectors/graders/dealers who can look at a coin with their naked eye and in 2 seconds weed out at least 90% of the coins that are not original.
There are no secrets and it is not hard to develop that "eye" with all the TPGS/CAC slabs around. You cannot develop this "eye" from images. You need to learn what original coins look like and today, that is very easy IF you have access to a large number of coins.
Why did your mention only coins graded 66-68? There are plenty of original looking gold coins graded lower than that, including circulated examples. Additionally, the original post referenced VF, XF and AU grades.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
"Original surfaces" is a little different from the grade. Usually "original surfaces" means surfaces that have not been messed with - dipped, smoothed, tooled, artificially tone, etc.
Are you trying to get markers for wear to determine "degree of preservation" (VF, XF, AU, etc.)? Or are you trying to figure out how to tell if a coin is messed with?
Fields, details, luster, rims and color in that order with special attention to detail of eagle's breast feathers.
Primarily details and fields.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Without a scope...Look for luster breaks when you tilt/roll the coin in light.
Your eye will see the dead spots and then look closer at them.
Be aware that I only know about saints and not libs.
Maybe disregard everything I just said
My Saint Set
I could suggest a second opinion service but it would derail a riveting thread.
(SELF EDIT)
I decline to answer that question.
This is true: "There are plenty of original looking gold coins graded lower than that, including circulated examples. Additionally, the original post referenced VF, XF and AU grades."
As you know, the appearance of "originality" continues from MS-70 all the way down to P-1
PS As I read the OP, his question about originality came before his question about the other grades.
And I could suggest a good scrubbing to get back down to more original surface hiding beneath all that tarnish.