Options
A recent example of post-Mint issue loss for the collector to hype.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
One of the most hyped Mint products in recent history was the 4-coin 2014 Kennedy Half-Dollar set. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great set and I own one. I was fortunate enough to be able to choose a set with choice DC coins. The point is that with these Mint products the price always moves down. I recall these sets started at $100 from the Mint and were being sold in the after-market immediately for $149 and higher. They eventually sank to the current GreySheet bid of $90 where they've been for a while, but the market being what it is we are buying at 70% or $63.
I say this because they have been coming in lately, maybe one set every week or two. Can anyone name a recent Mint product that has performed well??
Al H.
0
Comments
There are a few. UHR and fractional buffalos come to mind. But most do go down as you say.
That is the typical pattern for Mint products. Once the launch and flipping fever die down, values slowly sink. I believe even such hot items as the Jackie Robinson gold coin - which, for a long time held value, has since cooled down. Cheers, RickO
Look at the prices individually from the 2014 silver Kennedy set on ebay. The reverse proof alone generally sells for more than $45 by itself. The other 3 silver coins sell generally between $20 - $30 each. Decent profit if you're buying a whole set at $63.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The 2017 enhanced set is similar. The cent and half sell for about the same as the entire set.
2001 Buffalo dollar was a winner but don't know about now.
2011 american eagle 25th anniversary set still sells for 60%+ above issue price
Look at the prices individually from the 2014 silver Kennedy set on ebay. The reverse proof alone generally sells for more than $45 by itself. The other 3 silver coins sell generally between $20 - $30 each. Decent profit if you're buying a whole set at $63.
just to be clear, that $63 price is what we'd BUY the set at. the sale price is GreySheet @ $90, but there are few buyers of the sets, if any.
I was cured of the flipping fever long ago. When the mint started making proof sets again in 1968, the prices ran up to around $40/set (I think) for a while. With an issue price of $5, that was quite a bit. In 1971, I bought 10 sets, which I believe I still have and which are still worth about $5. Of course, when you take inflation into consideration, that $5 proof set actually cost me more than $30. Sometimes, you're the windshield- sometimes, you're the bug.
die varieties/MM's and DCAM's are the only thing that can save those 1968 sets. of course, if you don't sell you won't lose any money.
I should add that I really think part of the problem with many Mint products is the keeping of the packaging, not a desire to be rid of the coins. most sellers make remarks which say less about getting rid of the coins and more about storage and "making room" kind of comments.
@keets said: Can anyone name a recent Mint product that has performed well??
The 2017 Palladium? IIRC, it was direct to the mint's dealer network rather than to the public. Even so, my records indicate I paid Apmex $1286 for a PCGS MS70 on or about 10-02-17.
I just checked recent eBay closes, and there's one I believe is identical that sold for $2395 on September 12.
--Severian the Lame
Mint products performing well?
I can named quite a few since I started a Mint Account in early 2017...
Let's see:
-2017w Burnished Gold Eagle $50
-2017s Congratulation Set
-2017w Buffalo Proof $50
-2017 Palladium Eagle bullion
-2017 Boys Town $5 Unc and Proof
-2018 $25 Gold Eagle Bullion
-2018 Palladium Eagle Proof
-2019 Rocketship Set
-2019 Apollo 5oz Silver (initial 3 to 4 months at least)
I'm sure I missed a few..
How many of the above are due to an increase in the collecting premium versus increases in the spot price?
I'd guess most if not all except for the Congratulations set and Apollo coins, as I don't follow the prices. The latter are the only ones I believe have decent prospects as long term financial winners.
I would expect that, properly produced, ALL Mint coins SHOULD decrease in value. They are manufactured collectibles, not rare coins. Think Beanie Babies, Franklin MInt plates, and Star Wars figurines.
Agree if your point is that the Mint will logically strike the maximum to optimize revenue. If they do this, all should lose value since the US MInt in theory will have extracted all the profits upfront. This excludes changes in the metal content.
What I meant to say is that of those listed in the prior post, the three I named seemed to be the only ones whose collectible premium may increase. I don't know if it will happen but I definitely don't see it with any of the others.
Most of the items on the list still retained a huge premium over Mint issue price, especially in 70 grade.
The few bullions on the list seem to be less affected by the PM spot price upward mobility since they hv such a big numismatic premium to began with.
LoL yeah Keets, break up the sets, individually photograph the coins, list them online, wait till they sell, then ship and insure them, and if they don't get returned, net of costs, you might make a dollar an hour!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
When the US Mint found a way to perfect the coins in the mint sets, 2005 and up----and I'll admit others have likely beat me to this revelation because I treat the mint sets to all these mint products over the years. Perhaps, the coins for circulation are the rarer coins to collect.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Actuallly, I do this all the time. The total proceeds from the 4 coins would be $120. Net eBay fees would be about $108. That's a $45 profit for selling 4 coins. You can easily photo, list, sell and ship 10 coins per hour. So, the net profit is more like $90 per hour.
That's why i break up all but 1 i buy a> @jmlanzaf said:
I do the same thing. Only takes me about 2 minutes to photograph and list a coin on Ebay with my phone.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The 2009 UHR was the best and is still the best coin to come out of the mint when it comes to a coin that is and will always remain more valuable than its issue price.
get cured 😀
I'm not sure that's true. They sell in the $1700-$1800 range all the time. I just sold one on BST for $1650 [in a PCGS 69 PL holder]. That's only a couple hundred above melt. I don't know what the issue price was, but that's not a huge premium over the gold value.
My last Mint purchase were the Franklin Dollars. Can't get what I paid for them.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
The 2009 UHR issue price was $1189. That's still $450-600 above issue price.
But how much of that is due to the run-up in gold?
I mean, if you bought gold or silver eagles in the 1980s or 1990s, the nominal price is WAAAAY above issue price. But the nominal price is barely above bullion. Even the gold proofs have such a small premium these days, they have gone from being a coin to being a bullion play.
If [insert random Mint silver dollar commemorative] sells for $60 in 2025 because silver is $60 an ounce, I won on bullion, but I threw away $20 on the numismatic premium that has evaporated.
The OP didn't frame it this way but this is my longer term expectation for practically every coin covered by this thread. Even with the lowest mintage coins, it's unlikely the real collector base (those buying it as a collectible instead of for speculation) is near much less exceeds the mintage. Some of the mintages are low but that's because the coin usually doesn't have much appeal. As time goes on and the US Mint continues to add to the supply, the collector demand for each one should continue to decrease.
In the example of the 2009 UHR, the supply is so large and the price is so high due to the bullion content that only a relatively low proportion of the collector base can afford it. This leaves predominantly speculators who can endlessly flip it to each other in search of a profit.
No, YOU can few are that fast
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Maybe. I have a system. But you can certainly do more than 1 per hour, even if you are slow.
I agree.
Properly marketed, unless there is an increase in the number of collectors, they should be saturating the market at issue. [Rare exception of things like the 95-W ASE and maybe this year's reverse proof ASE.] With the collector base stagnant or shrinking, there will likely never be increasing demand. I think that's especially true of Commems marketed into segments (Girl Scouts, Apollo, etc.) where the coins end up in non-collector hands.
I know people want to think of coins as being "different", but other than the intrinsic value floor, they are just like every other collectible: sports cards, collector plates, Disney prints, etc.
I also don't think this is a reason to NOT buy Mint products. I think it is a reason to NOT buy Mint products as an investment. Buy them as you would a set of baseball cards: fun to own, pretty to look at, maybe worth a little something at the back end.