Is this a clipped planchet? 1965 quarter CRH find

Kliao

I was looking through a box quarters looking for W’s unfortunately none found for me yet. Although I did come across this 1965 quarter. Looks to be a clipped planchet. Is it an error? Is fo is there any value? I’m guessing little maybe $5-$10? Thanks!

PipestonePete

Nice clip with obvious Blakesly effect. Nice find.

Kliao

@PipestonePete said:
Nice clip with obvious Blakesly effect. Nice find.

Thanks what’s the Blakesly effect?

Batman23

Looks good. Blakesly effect is the strike weakness opposite the clip.

Kliao

@Batman23 said:
Looks good. Blakesly effect is the strike weakness opposite the clip.

Oh I didn’t know that. Thanks!

cladking

Notice how little wear it has and how that wear is the type that coins received back in the old days. It appears to have circulated about five years before someone pulled it out. Since these were released up unto 1975 it was pulled some time between about 1971 and 1980. It then appears to have reentered circulation for a couple years.

Of course its history could be a little different than what is apparent but it's still a neat coin to find so worn.

CaptHenway

Please explain “released up until 1975”

Kliao

@cladking said:
Notice how little wear it has and how that wear is the type that coins received back in the old days. It appears to have circulated about five years before someone pulled it out. Since these were released up unto 1975 it was pulled some time between about 1971 and 1980. It then appears to have reentered circulation for a couple years.

Of course its history could be a little different than what is apparent but it's still a neat coin to find so worn.

Wow that would be a cool story for this coin. It’s the first error coin I’ve found CRH so I’m pretty excited.

What is the value of a clip so small? Also how do you calculate the percentage clipped?

Oldhoopster

Nice find. A quick and dirty way to calculate the % clipped is to look up the diameter of a standard quarter. Measure the diameter from the clip to the opposite edge.
Then
[(Dstandard-Dclip)/Dstandard]x100 = % clipped

Hemispherical

@Kliao said:

@PipestonePete said:
Nice clip with obvious Blakesly effect. Nice find.

Thanks what’s the Blakesly effect?

Very good article (post) from our friends down under about the effect.

https://www.australian-coins.com/error-coins/how-to-determine-if-a-clipped-planchet-error-is-real/

Kliao

@Oldhoopster said:
Nice find. A quick and dirty way to calculate the % clipped is to look up the diameter of a standard quarter. Measure the diameter from the clip to the opposite edge.
Then
[(Dstandard-Dclip)/Dstandard]x100 = % clipped

Thanks the clip is a bit under 1%.

Kliao

@Hemispherical
thanks for the article, with good info

JBK

Nice find!

CaptHenway

Please explain “released up until 1975”

gonzer

@Kliao said:

Thanks the clip is a bit under 1%.

It's more than that but more importantly...

@CaptHenway said:
Please explain “released up until 1975”

Kliao

@gonzer said:

@Kliao said:

Thanks the clip is a bit under 1%.

It's more than that

I did the calculations and that is what it came out to. What % do you think it is?

olympicsos

@CaptHenway said:
Please explain “released up until 1975”

The treasury switched to first in, first out accounting and had to rotate out old coins in storage before new ones can be issued. Before that the treasury used to have lots of older coins in storage.

toyz4geo

Neat find.

Kliao

@toyz4geo said:
Neat find.

Thanks

johnny9434

nice pick up

ricko

Interesting find....I have never found a clipped coin in circulation....have seen many at shows of course. Definitely a keeper. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway

@olympicsos said:

@CaptHenway said:
Please explain “released up until 1975”

The treasury switched to first in, first out accounting and had to rotate out old coins in storage before new ones can be issued. Before that the treasury used to have lots of older coins in storage.

Do you have any documentation on this policy and the storage of older coins, and the policy it replaced? I am writing a story about the 1922-D cents, and have found documentation that virtually none of them were released in 1922 because the Denver Mint took in roughly 10 million circulated cents during that year, presumably sent to it by Federal Reserve Banks though I have not documented that part yet, and they would not release the new cents until they had gotten rid of the circulated cents.

cladking

@CaptHenway said:
Please explain “released up until 1975”

I watched circulating coins very closely from the time the first clad quarters were released around Thanksgiving of 1965. It was very common to go to the bank and get a brand new roll of very old clads. 1969-D dimes showed up for years and years around here. I didn't collect any clads in those days because of this. Then in early 1972 I read an article in the Chicago tribune that the mint and Fed were switching to FIFO accounting and were going to rotate out all the coins in storage the longest. I figured always before there would be brand new coins disrupting collectible markets but now all the coins would wear out pretty evenly. I began collecting clad at this time.

Initially there seemed little difference but as time went by the incidence of brand new older coins in circulation and BU rolls of them at the bank started plummeting. The very last old BU rolls I saw were '69-D dimes and '65 quarters in 1975. Of course this was the Chicago FED and different parts of the country would have somewhat different coins at the time. Very few dates seemed to get into circulation rapidly all over but the '66 and '69(P) quarter and the '71 dime might be. I'd guess that 99% of '66 quarters were in circulation by the end of '68 but 99% of the '65's weren't in circulation until nearly 1975.

Since the mid-'70's quarters have worn very evenly by date except for a couple anomalies that I don't understand. 1972-d quarters, for instance, wore more gradually than most other dates until they got down to XF. It probably has something to do with annealing of the strip. Dimes did not wear quite so evenly in those days because they sat out more and had a much lower velocity. Dimes are far more likely to sit in sock drawers longer.

The very low incidence of lightly worn quarters is caused by the fact that until 1999 almost no quarters sat in storage longer than about three years; the time it takes to cycle through coins in storage. Since 1999 the mint has been trying to get new quarters to the public and some coins sit much longer. There appeared to have been a huge number in storage in 2008/ '09 and these could still be getting worked off.

But all through the '70's, '80's and '90's coins churned through storage and quarters wore quite evenly. High grades were probably always the result of people saving coins for major purchases or piggy banks breaking. Today coins don't so much wear out as they get beaten up by counting machines. Most quarters are just covered in small dings and scratches. By the times they hit low end AU they get banged up a lot. Nice evenly worn quarters probably got that wear in the old days from sliding around in pockets and purses.

CaptHenway

Curious, when you consider that the Treasury had to replace all of the silver coins in circulation with clad ones in just a couple of years, especially since Treasury had been saying for years that there was a coin shortage. Logically all of the 1965 through 1967 or so dimes and quarters should have gone out the door, and then some.

The changeover occurred during the end of the roll and bag mania. Is it possible that the "late releases" you were seeing were just people giving up on early clad rolls and bags that they had put away during the early years of the clad coins, which never went anywheres and ended up getting dumped back to banks and circulated?

cladking

@CaptHenway said:
Curious, when you consider that the Treasury had to replace all of the silver coins in circulation with clad ones in just a couple of years, especially since Treasury had been saying for years that there was a coin shortage. Logically all of the 1965 through 1967 or so dimes and quarters should have gone out the door, and then some.

The changeover occurred during the end of the roll and bag mania. Is it possible that the "late releases" you were seeing were just people giving up on early clad rolls and bags that they had put away during the early years of the clad coins, which never went anywheres and ended up getting dumped back to banks and circulated?

It's not impossible but i believe it's pretty unlikely.

I'm figuring the rate at which people were hoarding silver didn't increase substantially when clads were first introduced. Once production ramped up sufficiently to replace those being hoarded plus the increasing demand for coins they simply started filling up warehouses and reusing the coins flowing back to the FED. These were predominantly silver but as time progressed there were substantial amounts of clads which would serve to reduce the amount being hoarded since much of the hoarding was casual; ie, the public just held out silver and with less silver they held out fewer coins. The '65 issues were still being made into March or April of '66 and mintages of these were huge. Of course they were still coining silver during most of this time as well. Production slowed a little in '66 after the shortage eased. I believe the mint resumed normal operation during this time as well.

Then silver prices started rising in '67 and silver hoarding increased. Mintages went up again. In all of this it appears a lot of '65's just got stuck in storage as insurance against the coin shortage reappearing.

Most of this is largely guesswork to explain extensive observation and the little news coming out of the mint. The shortage was declared over by '68 and mint marks reappeared. Coins stuck in storage became determined by demand/ mintage. Each FED district would be unique.

Kliao

@johnny9434 said:
nice pick up

Thanks!

@ricko said:
Interesting find....I have never found a clipped coin in circulation....have seen many at shows of course. Definitely a keeper. Cheers, RickO

This is the first error I ever found! And I probably search through $15k+

olympicsos

@CaptHenway said:

@olympicsos said:

@CaptHenway said:
Please explain “released up until 1975”

The treasury switched to first in, first out accounting and had to rotate out old coins in storage before new ones can be issued. Before that the treasury used to have lots of older coins in storage.

Do you have any documentation on this policy and the storage of older coins, and the policy it replaced? I am writing a story about the 1922-D cents, and have found documentation that virtually none of them were released in 1922 because the Denver Mint took in roughly 10 million circulated cents during that year, presumably sent to it by Federal Reserve Banks though I have not documented that part yet, and they would not release the new cents until they had gotten rid of the circulated cents.

I find CladKing's posts informative and I remember him talking about this. I like his insight!

cladking

@CaptHenway said:

The changeover occurred during the end of the roll and bag mania. Is it possible that the "late releases" you were seeing were just people giving up on early clad rolls and bags that they had put away during the early years of the clad coins, which never went anywheres and ended up getting dumped back to banks and circulated?

It is true that a lot of BU rolls were set aside through 1968 by "investors". But it was very quickly found there was no demand for these and $10 was too much money to tie up in those days so most of these coins were released. Indeed, such a high percentage were released that today the 1965 roll sells wholesale for $115. Remember that's $115 in today's market where there is still very thin demand.

In 1975 there were substantial numbers of '65 quarters with extremely light wear in circulation. This was several percent of mintage! It's hard for me to believe more than about ten million coins were initially saved out but there were ten times this number of nice AU's in circulation. Indeed, 1965 was one of the last early dates that disappeared from circulation in AU around 1990. A few people preferentially save the '65's since it is the oldest so even today it's not unusual to find nice attractive VF's. Quarters that spend much time in circulation now days though do get beaten up a lot unfortunately.

How so many '65's ended up in storage so long is difficult to say but that they did is apparent. This wasn't the only date that trickled into circulation for years. I suspect in those days there were at least a few pallets of almost every date and denomination lost in a warehouse somewhere. After 1975 I've seen virtually no evidence of this. Evidence would be seeing a sudden influx of old coins in high grade or finding a couple BU's in the same roll. Even in those days the FED didn't do all the work of moving the coins about but they did do most of it. Now days virtually all of it is contracted out but I don't believe these contractors store any coin. I believe other entities are contracted to store them. The mint keeps a lot of coins but I believe they are all brand new and they are rotated. The FED itself stores a surprisingly tiny number of coins and these may or may not be rotated. The coins are worked off since (as of 2005) the FED does still do some cash business but I doubt each FED worries about rotating their stocks. The coins are circulated at the FED banks.

cladking

Thanks Olymicsos.

I believe that when it comes to modern coins what you see is what you get. Open a roll of circulating quarters and they are very highly representative of all the modern coins. Quarters were vary little from one corner of the country to another for early dates. The spread of grades for each date forms a narrow bell curve with few outliers. Well made and poorly made coins are represented according to mintage rather than the actions of collectors. It's only been in very recent years that the activities of collectors is starting to show up; scarcer dates are getting harder to find and higher grades (especially of better dates) are apparently being selectively removed by collectors. There might even be a little evidence of indiscriminant hoarding of eagle reverse coins since the ratio of these with later issues might be falling a little faster than mintages of the newer coins. This might also be accounted for by the FED removing heavily worn and damaged coin. It's getting a little more difficult to be sure what's going on due to both the huge numbers in circulation and that all the quarters appear to be getting picked over and this increases every year. Recently several anecdotal reports suggest that there are old high grade coins showing up. This could be caused by many processes but I've not seen enough of these to rule out much of anything.

olympicsos

@cladking said:
Thanks Olymicsos.

I believe that when it comes to modern coins what you see is what you get. Open a roll of circulating quarters and they are very highly representative of all the modern coins. Quarters were vary little from one corner of the country to another for early dates. The spread of grades for each date forms a narrow bell curve with few outliers. Well made and poorly made coins are represented according to mintage rather than the actions of collectors. It's only been in very recent years that the activities of collectors is starting to show up; scarcer dates are getting harder to find and higher grades (especially of better dates) are apparently being selectively removed by collectors. There might even be a little evidence of indiscriminant hoarding of eagle reverse coins since the ratio of these with later issues might be falling a little faster than mintages of the newer coins. This might also be accounted for by the FED removing heavily worn and damaged coin. It's getting a little more difficult to be sure what's going on due to both the huge numbers in circulation and that all the quarters appear to be getting picked over and this increases every year. Recently several anecdotal reports suggest that there are old high grade coins showing up. This could be caused by many processes but I've not seen enough of these to rule out much of anything.

I'm in NYC and I still get large numbers of eagle reverse quarters in rolls since I buy rolls all the time for laundry and parking meters. I still find a bunch of 1965-1967 dated coins, but not so much on the 1968-1969 dates. I have seen nicer state quarters with luster intact that look like they can be AU or low end MS in rolls with luster from the bank. But I never see any higher end AU or MS eagle reverse quarters. On a side note, I have still yet to find a 2019-W quarter.