My gut says the player with the most talent and the greatest diversity of skills was Gale Sayers. Playing for a terrible team cost him years off his career, but make the numbers he put up jaw-dropping. Since it's a team game and it's impossible to identify a GOAT anyway, I'll vote for Sayers.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Once again it blows my mind that it’s not a blanket response of Tom Brady. It’s all good though I’m not going down that rabbit hole with everyone again but it really bewilder’s me 🤷♂️
@perkdog said:
Once again it blows my mind that it’s not a blanket response of Tom Brady. It’s all good though I’m not going down that rabbit hole with everyone again but it really bewilder’s me 🤷♂️
I don't like to include active athletes as GOAT choices. Probably not a good reason but I like to see the career in its entirety before bestowing such an honor.
I might have had Tiger as Goat if he retired after the 2008 season. The next ten years of fumbling both on and off the course (with the exception of the dramatic 2019 Masters win) has been a drag on his rep.
Five years from now I'll forget or at least minimize the cheating by Brady and Belichick and look more at the rings.
@perkdog said:
Once again it blows my mind that it’s not a blanket response of Tom Brady. It’s all good though I’m not going down that rabbit hole with everyone again but it really bewilder’s me 🤷♂️
I don't like to include active athletes as GOAT choices. Probably not a good reason but I like to see the career in its entirety before bestowing such an honor.
I might have had Tiger as Goat if he retired after the 2008 season. The next ten years of fumbling both on and off the course (with the exception of the dramatic 2019 Masters win) has been a drag on his rep.
Five years from now I'll forget or at least minimize the cheating by Brady and Belichick and look more at the rings.
Cannot have a NFL defensive player as GOAT. It is impossible because it's a defensive position.
That's like saying the greatest fielder is the GOAT of baseball, the greatest shot blocker is the GOAT of basketball, the greatest goaltender is the GOAT of hockey. Simply cannot be a GOAT at those positions.
Greatest & most accomplished are not always the same.
As far as who is the greatest, you would have to go by position. Comparing a pass rusher to a wide receiver to a running back is apples & oranges.
@stevek said:
Cannot have a NFL defensive player as GOAT. It is impossible because it's a defensive position.
That's like saying the greatest fielder is the GOAT of baseball, the greatest shot blocker is the GOAT of basketball, the greatest goaltender is the GOAT of hockey. Simply cannot be a GOAT at those positions.
Case closed.
BTW, the GOAT in NFL football is Jim Brown.
You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the Alan Page videos. Only lineman ever to win NFL MVP. In those videos he shows every aspect of playing football except kicking and downfield passing. He even laterals to (Jim Marshal?) a team mate who runs it in for a TD.
Case closed!
First time I ever posted "case closed" it does feel good.
Brown is a fine choice too. Don't forget Bronko Nagurski. Came back after being out of football for 6 years and led his team to a championship.
@stevek said:
Cannot have a NFL defensive player as GOAT. It is impossible because it's a defensive position.
That's like saying the greatest fielder is the GOAT of baseball, the greatest shot blocker is the GOAT of basketball, the greatest goaltender is the GOAT of hockey. Simply cannot be a GOAT at those positions.
Case closed.
BTW, the GOAT in NFL football is Jim Brown.
You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the Alan Page videos. Only lineman ever to win NFL MVP. In those videos he shows every aspect of playing football except kicking and downfield passing. He even laterals to (Jim Marshal?) a team mate who runs it in for a TD.
Case closed!
First time I ever posted "case closed" it does feel good.
Brown is a fine choice too. Don't forget Bronko Nagurski. Came back after being out of football for 6 years and led his team to a championship.
Bill Belichick once stated, paraphrase, the worst athletes on a NFL football team are on defense because they weren't good enough to play offense.
If ya think about that, it's true. The defensive linemen can't block, the linebackers can't run, and the corners and safeties can't catch a football. None of them can throw a football.
Of course Alan Page, Lawrence Taylor, etc, were great football players. But we're talking GOAT here. NFL GOAT simply cannot be awarded to defensive players.
"Linebackers can't run and corners and safeties can't catch the football?"
Again you simply couldn't have watched the Alan Page videos, because I pointed out that he did everything but kick and throw the ball downfield.
We are most likely looking at it from two different points of view. I am not thinking of "Valuable", I am thinking more of a "football player", so QB's, WR's OL Safeties and CB's are going to be (for the most part) excluded immediately. Guys like Page, LT, Jim Brown and Bronko dominated games. If you would have watched Page play in his prime you would know what I mean. He tackled, sacked intercepted, blocked kicks, ran like a deer and just "knew" how to play the game. Reggie White comes close, but Page did more things. Page also did it from an interior lineman's spot.
Barry Sanders and Sayers were at times unstoppable even without much blocking. Red Grange and Chuck Bednaric need to be mentioned too.
Using the EXACT same thought process; The QB can't run, block, tackle or catch a football. They can only have success in the one thing they do, throw the football, if the lineman give him time.
Case unsealed, reopened, overturned and resealed!
This is fun!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@stevek said:
Cannot have a NFL defensive player as GOAT. It is impossible because it's a defensive position.
That's like saying the greatest fielder is the GOAT of baseball, the greatest shot blocker is the GOAT of basketball, the greatest goaltender is the GOAT of hockey. Simply cannot be a GOAT at those positions.
Case closed.
BTW, the GOAT in NFL football is Jim Brown.
You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the Alan Page videos. Only lineman ever to win NFL MVP. In those videos he shows every aspect of playing football except kicking and downfield passing. He even laterals to (Jim Marshal?) a team mate who runs it in for a TD.
Case closed!
First time I ever posted "case closed" it does feel good.
Brown is a fine choice too. Don't forget Bronko Nagurski. Came back after being out of football for 6 years and led his team to a championship.
Bill Belichick once stated, paraphrase, the worst athletes on a NFL football team are on defense because they weren't good enough to play offense.
If ya think about that, it's true. The defensive linemen can't block, the linebackers can't run, and the corners and safeties can't catch a football. None of them can throw a football.
Of course Alan Page, Lawrence Taylor, etc, were great football players. But we're talking GOAT here. NFL GOAT simply cannot be awarded to defensive players.
Case now closed and permanently sealed.
Agreed except add worthless running backs to the exclude list
@45isodd said:
If scoring touchdowns is the object of the game, then no one was better than Jerry Rice.
A SUPERIOR football player! I would say he was another unstoppable guy. Seemed to always get open and make a catch in critical situations to win, or give his team a chance to win.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@45isodd said:
If scoring touchdowns is the object of the game, then no one was better than Jerry Rice.
A SUPERIOR football player! I would say he was another unstoppable guy. Seemed to always get open and make a catch in critical situations to win, or give his team a chance to win.
I’d take Terrell Owens or Randy Moss over Rice IF they didn’t have their baggage, both were a cut above the rest but their poor attitudes ruined a lot of potential they had to be better
Moss certainly had IMMENSE talent and the best size (Lean but tall) and speed that I have ever seen. His first years in Minnesota, he looked like he was on hie way to being the finest WR of all time.
He actually quit one time before the end of a game, and it was obvious at times he shied away from contact. So much that he would not make an effort to catch a ball in the middle of the field if he thought he was going to get hit. Gutless football player.
Owens was a goofball, I didn't see him play nearly as often, but he seemed (to me) to give a maximum effort on the field.
Rice was a 100X better competitor than Moss. I couldn't say about Owens.
Jerry wasn't slow either, he might not have had the most raw talent, but his determination to beat the other team was second to none. I'll take guys like that all day over guys like Moss.
"Winners never quit, quitters never win".
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
Moss certainly had IMMENSE talent and the best size (Lean but tall) and speed that I have ever seen. His first years in Minnesota, he looked like he was on hie way to being the finest WR of all time.
He actually quit one time before the end of a game, and it was obvious at times he shied away from contact. So much that he would not make an effort to catch a ball in the middle of the field if he thought he was going to get hit. Gutless football player.
Owens was a goofball, I didn't see him play nearly as often, but he seemed (to me) to give a maximum effort on the field.
Rice was a 100X better competitor than Moss. I couldn't say about Owens.
Jerry wasn't slow either, he might not have had the most raw talent, but his determination to beat the other team was second to none. I'll take guys like that all day over guys like Moss.
"Winners never quit, quitters never win".
All valid points, Moss definitely quit on the Raiders when he was there, I remember him just giving up on plays and not trying. Moss has a bad attitude while Owens was just a complete idiot
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
I think Page and Taylor were very similar players in that they could take over games from a defensive position.
I like Page a little better as he did it from the DT position, plus he blocked a LOT of kicks, possibly the single most game changing thing a defender can do!
Bud Grant told Page that the two most important things in football were Field Position and Possession, a blocked kick is going to either deny the other team points or give your team a huge field position advantage or both.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
I think Page and Taylor were very similar players in that they could take over games from a defensive position.
I like Page a little better as he did it from the DT position, plus he blocked a LOT of kicks, possibly the single most game changing thing a defender can do!
Bud Grant told Page that the two most important things in football were Field Position and Possession, a blocked kick is going to either deny the other team points or give your team a huge field position advantage or both.
Not going to try to one up you, just add a good story.
The Eagles were playing the Giants, it was the 3rd quarter in a close game, Eagles are driving methodically with Ron Jaworski under center. So it’s like 3rd and 7, they break the huddle a little late...5...Gets under center and looks around for 56...4...He can’t find 56...3...where is LT?...2...I can’t find him...1...TIMEOUT!!!!
As it turns out, he was on the sideline for that play getting a blow and still impacted the game.
Story was told by Jaws...if I recall he said they lost because they needed one more T.O. on the last drive to get the FG unit onto the field...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
Depends on how you define it. By points allowed, not sure. By yards - the official metric the NFL uses - the Patriots were very average for a couple of theirs - 21st last year, 24th for their first.
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
I think Page and Taylor were very similar players in that they could take over games from a defensive position.
I like Page a little better as he did it from the DT position, plus he blocked a LOT of kicks, possibly the single most game changing thing a defender can do!
Bud Grant told Page that the two most important things in football were Field Position and Possession, a blocked kick is going to either deny the other team points or give your team a huge field position advantage or both.
Not going to try to one up you, just add a good story.
The Eagles were playing the Giants, it was the 3rd quarter in a close game, Eagles are driving methodically with Ron Jaworski under center. So it’s like 3rd and 7, they break the huddle a little late...5...Gets under center and looks around for 56...4...He can’t find 56...3...where is LT?...2...I can’t find him...1...TIMEOUT!!!!
As it turns out, he was on the sideline for that play getting a blow and still impacted the game.
Story was told by Jaws...if I recall he said they lost because they needed one more T.O. on the last drive to get the FG unit onto the field...
I had heard that before. Cute story.
You New York/East Coast guys just have to have everything!
;-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
I stand by my comment that an offensive player has to be the NFL GOAT.
That being said, that is a good idea to have an offensive GOAT and defensive GOAT, and I would agree with both of your choices.
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
I stand by my comment that an offensive player has to be the NFL GOAT.
That being said, that is a good idea to have an offensive GOAT and defensive GOAT, and I would agree with both of your choices.
No surprises here either.
;-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@ScoobyDoo2 said:
Lawrence Taylor was a game changer ... a one man wrecking crew.
Yeah, he got to hide behind the lineman and run around hitting people, Page got double teamed on almost every play by a guard and center and still dominated.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@ScoobyDoo2 said:
Lawrence Taylor was a game changer ... a one man wrecking crew.
Yeah, he got to hide behind the lineman and run around hitting people, Page got double teamed on almost every play by a guard and center and still dominated.
Ok I get your a Minny homer, I can relate since I’m the biggest Patriots homer and I hate everything about the New York Giants BUT it’s absurd to downplay or take anything away from LT. Anyone outside of a Minny fan would take LT over Page case closed
I am not taking anything away from anyone and I am not being a homer. I am relaying the facts.
Why do posters bring the "taking away from" comment up anyway? Every single debate on who one guy likes over another is going to have a list of positives and negatives associated with the players involved in the debate.
If I want to go that route, I could mention that LT was supposedly high as a kite on the field for much (all?) of his career, but I did not. Well, now I have. He was a drug addict and Page was a Minnesota Supreme Court Judge. So if we want to include character in out evaluation, that case is closed.
You actually think that it's just as easy to play on the line with a man (or two) hitting you on every play as soon as the ball is snapped as compared to being in a position where you are off the line a few yards and have a little more room, and time, to survey the situation before making your move?
No doubt LT was a beast, but as a football player I would say Page was just as dominant from a harder position to play.
Page was also a huge special teams contributor. Credited with 28 blocked kicks, he recovered twice as many fumbles and had more sacks (either 149 or 173 depending on where you look)LT had 132 sacks. LT apparently never blocked a kick, but you ignore that stat. Blocking two kicks a year for your entire career is value.
All I hear from LT supporters is "he was better". I saw both guys play and think Page was better and he has the numbers to prove it. Granted I saw more of Page, and I live in Minnesota.
Even the Pro Football Reference has Page above Taylor on it's "Approximate Value" standings, so I guess your "Anyone outside of a Minny fan would take LT over Page case closed" comment is incorrect.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
I am not taking anything away from anyone and I am not being a homer. I am relaying the facts.
Why do posters bring the "taking away from" comment up anyway? Every single debate on who one guy likes over another is going to have a list of positives and negatives associated with the players involved in the debate.
If I want to go that route, I could mention that LT was supposedly high as a kite on the field for much (all?) of his career, but I did not. Well, now I have. He was a drug addict and Page was a Minnesota Supreme Court Judge. So if we want to include character in out evaluation, that case is closed.
You actually think that it's just as easy to play on the line with a man (or two) hitting you on every play as soon as the ball is snapped as compared to being in a position where you are off the line a few yards and have a little more room, and time, to survey the situation before making your move?
No doubt LT was a beast, but as a football player I would say Page was just as dominant from a harder position to play.
Page was also a huge special teams contributor. Credited with 28 blocked kicks, he recovered twice as many fumbles and had more sacks (either 149 or 173 depending on where you look)LT had 132 sacks. LT apparently never blocked a kick, but you ignore that stat. Blocking two kicks a year for your entire career is value.
All I hear from LT supporters is "he was better". I saw both guys play and think Page was better and he has the numbers to prove it. Granted I saw more of Page, and I live in Minnesota.
Even the Pro Football Reference has Page above Taylor on it's "Approximate Value" standings, so I guess your "Anyone outside of a Minny fan would take LT over Page case closed" comment is incorrect.
To answer why I said you were”Taking Away” was simply for your nonsensical statement that he got to hide behind lineman and run around hitting people. That is laughable, that’s clearly taking away from his position which is wrong. I mean he got blocked and hit nearly every time trying to “Run around and hit people” Lineman is definitely a tough position but rushing another lineman is hardly just as bad as running around at full speed getting blocked and trying to catch running backs and QB’s.
hammer1
Posts: 3,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Jim Brown
Brady QB
Smith RB
Tom Brady
My gut says the player with the most talent and the greatest diversity of skills was Gale Sayers. Playing for a terrible team cost him years off his career, but make the numbers he put up jaw-dropping. Since it's a team game and it's impossible to identify a GOAT anyway, I'll vote for Sayers.
Brady 🏈🏈🏈
D- Mean Joe
O- Walter Payton
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Once again it blows my mind that it’s not a blanket response of Tom Brady. It’s all good though I’m not going down that rabbit hole with everyone again but it really bewilder’s me 🤷♂️
I don't like to include active athletes as GOAT choices. Probably not a good reason but I like to see the career in its entirety before bestowing such an honor.
I might have had Tiger as Goat if he retired after the 2008 season. The next ten years of fumbling both on and off the course (with the exception of the dramatic 2019 Masters win) has been a drag on his rep.
Five years from now I'll forget or at least minimize the cheating by Brady and Belichick and look more at the rings.
Fair enough
It's Brady, hands down, and it's not even close.
He will certainly make it to Cooperstown, first ballot!
Greatest NFL player, no...….greatest QB, yes
QB is the only player that matters in the NFL
LT was such a game changing force, without question the best LB ever, I hate to say it but Ray Lewis was a close second.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=is5gaq-yUK4Allan Page.
Sayers is an interesting choice, he was unstoppable.
So was Allan Page.
I Know your a big football guy so I need to know who you think is the best “NFL Player” is.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=prJeAK__kqA
In this day in age of arena-like pro football, I cant vote for a QB that has played in the last 15-20 years.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Cannot have a NFL defensive player as GOAT. It is impossible because it's a defensive position.
That's like saying the greatest fielder is the GOAT of baseball, the greatest shot blocker is the GOAT of basketball, the greatest goaltender is the GOAT of hockey. Simply cannot be a GOAT at those positions.
Case closed.
BTW, the GOAT in NFL football is Jim Brown.
Greatest & most accomplished are not always the same.
As far as who is the greatest, you would have to go by position. Comparing a pass rusher to a wide receiver to a running back is apples & oranges.
You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the Alan Page videos. Only lineman ever to win NFL MVP. In those videos he shows every aspect of playing football except kicking and downfield passing. He even laterals to (Jim Marshal?) a team mate who runs it in for a TD.
Case closed!
First time I ever posted "case closed" it does feel good.
Brown is a fine choice too. Don't forget Bronko Nagurski. Came back after being out of football for 6 years and led his team to a championship.
Absolutely no way a QB can be the GOAT.
Bill Belichick once stated, paraphrase, the worst athletes on a NFL football team are on defense because they weren't good enough to play offense.
If ya think about that, it's true. The defensive linemen can't block, the linebackers can't run, and the corners and safeties can't catch a football. None of them can throw a football.
Of course Alan Page, Lawrence Taylor, etc, were great football players. But we're talking GOAT here. NFL GOAT simply cannot be awarded to defensive players.
Case now closed and permanently sealed.
"Linebackers can't run and corners and safeties can't catch the football?"
Again you simply couldn't have watched the Alan Page videos, because I pointed out that he did everything but kick and throw the ball downfield.
We are most likely looking at it from two different points of view. I am not thinking of "Valuable", I am thinking more of a "football player", so QB's, WR's OL Safeties and CB's are going to be (for the most part) excluded immediately. Guys like Page, LT, Jim Brown and Bronko dominated games. If you would have watched Page play in his prime you would know what I mean. He tackled, sacked intercepted, blocked kicks, ran like a deer and just "knew" how to play the game. Reggie White comes close, but Page did more things. Page also did it from an interior lineman's spot.
Barry Sanders and Sayers were at times unstoppable even without much blocking. Red Grange and Chuck Bednaric need to be mentioned too.
Using the EXACT same thought process; The QB can't run, block, tackle or catch a football. They can only have success in the one thing they do, throw the football, if the lineman give him time.
Case unsealed, reopened, overturned and resealed!
This is fun!
Agreed except add worthless running backs to the exclude list
New GOAT Jeff George!!!!!!! Could throw the football better than anyone, except possibly Marino!
If scoring touchdowns is the object of the game, then no one was better than Jerry Rice.
A SUPERIOR football player! I would say he was another unstoppable guy. Seemed to always get open and make a catch in critical situations to win, or give his team a chance to win.
Highest scorer is nearly always the place kicker. By that measure I nominate Eddie Murray as GOAT
I’d take Terrell Owens or Randy Moss over Rice IF they didn’t have their baggage, both were a cut above the rest but their poor attitudes ruined a lot of potential they had to be better
Moss certainly had IMMENSE talent and the best size (Lean but tall) and speed that I have ever seen. His first years in Minnesota, he looked like he was on hie way to being the finest WR of all time.
He actually quit one time before the end of a game, and it was obvious at times he shied away from contact. So much that he would not make an effort to catch a ball in the middle of the field if he thought he was going to get hit. Gutless football player.
Owens was a goofball, I didn't see him play nearly as often, but he seemed (to me) to give a maximum effort on the field.
Rice was a 100X better competitor than Moss. I couldn't say about Owens.
Jerry wasn't slow either, he might not have had the most raw talent, but his determination to beat the other team was second to none. I'll take guys like that all day over guys like Moss.
"Winners never quit, quitters never win".
All valid points, Moss definitely quit on the Raiders when he was there, I remember him just giving up on plays and not trying. Moss has a bad attitude while Owens was just a complete idiot
Adam Vinatieri
Offense - Jim Brown
Defense - Lawrence Taylor
By the way, I just want to add that I think a defensive player can be the greatest player of all time.
Theoretically, a football team can have an offense put up no yards and no points and still win the game with a strong defensive effort and points off turnovers.
Additionally, something to consider: there have been a few teams that won the Super Bowl with average (being kind) quarterbacks but I cant think of any team has won the Super Bowl with an average defense. Could be wrong - stream of consciousness thought...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
How many of Jerry’s 80+ yard TD catches were 5-10 yard catches that he turned into big gainers? He made Montana and Young look like they had cannons.
I think Page and Taylor were very similar players in that they could take over games from a defensive position.
I like Page a little better as he did it from the DT position, plus he blocked a LOT of kicks, possibly the single most game changing thing a defender can do!
Bud Grant told Page that the two most important things in football were Field Position and Possession, a blocked kick is going to either deny the other team points or give your team a huge field position advantage or both.
Not going to try to one up you, just add a good story.
The Eagles were playing the Giants, it was the 3rd quarter in a close game, Eagles are driving methodically with Ron Jaworski under center. So it’s like 3rd and 7, they break the huddle a little late...5...Gets under center and looks around for 56...4...He can’t find 56...3...where is LT?...2...I can’t find him...1...TIMEOUT!!!!
As it turns out, he was on the sideline for that play getting a blow and still impacted the game.
Story was told by Jaws...if I recall he said they lost because they needed one more T.O. on the last drive to get the FG unit onto the field...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Depends on how you define it. By points allowed, not sure. By yards - the official metric the NFL uses - the Patriots were very average for a couple of theirs - 21st last year, 24th for their first.
Brady on offense, LT on D. Case closed
I had heard that before. Cute story.
You New York/East Coast guys just have to have everything!
;-)
We’re all about equality as long as you get less than me.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I stand by my comment that an offensive player has to be the NFL GOAT.
That being said, that is a good idea to have an offensive GOAT and defensive GOAT, and I would agree with both of your choices.
That figures.
No surprises here either.
;-)
Lawrence Taylor was a game changer ... a one man wrecking crew.
Yeah, he got to hide behind the lineman and run around hitting people, Page got double teamed on almost every play by a guard and center and still dominated.
Ok I get your a Minny homer, I can relate since I’m the biggest Patriots homer and I hate everything about the New York Giants BUT it’s absurd to downplay or take anything away from LT. Anyone outside of a Minny fan would take LT over Page case closed
I am not taking anything away from anyone and I am not being a homer. I am relaying the facts.
Why do posters bring the "taking away from" comment up anyway? Every single debate on who one guy likes over another is going to have a list of positives and negatives associated with the players involved in the debate.
If I want to go that route, I could mention that LT was supposedly high as a kite on the field for much (all?) of his career, but I did not. Well, now I have. He was a drug addict and Page was a Minnesota Supreme Court Judge. So if we want to include character in out evaluation, that case is closed.
You actually think that it's just as easy to play on the line with a man (or two) hitting you on every play as soon as the ball is snapped as compared to being in a position where you are off the line a few yards and have a little more room, and time, to survey the situation before making your move?
No doubt LT was a beast, but as a football player I would say Page was just as dominant from a harder position to play.
Page was also a huge special teams contributor. Credited with 28 blocked kicks, he recovered twice as many fumbles and had more sacks (either 149 or 173 depending on where you look)LT had 132 sacks. LT apparently never blocked a kick, but you ignore that stat. Blocking two kicks a year for your entire career is value.
All I hear from LT supporters is "he was better". I saw both guys play and think Page was better and he has the numbers to prove it. Granted I saw more of Page, and I live in Minnesota.
Even the Pro Football Reference has Page above Taylor on it's "Approximate Value" standings, so I guess your "Anyone outside of a Minny fan would take LT over Page case closed" comment is incorrect.
To answer why I said you were”Taking Away” was simply for your nonsensical statement that he got to hide behind lineman and run around hitting people. That is laughable, that’s clearly taking away from his position which is wrong. I mean he got blocked and hit nearly every time trying to “Run around and hit people” Lineman is definitely a tough position but rushing another lineman is hardly just as bad as running around at full speed getting blocked and trying to catch running backs and QB’s.
Not in comparison with a lineman.