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Best way to upgrade
matt_dac
Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
What do you guys/gals think as the best way to upgrade your ‘common’ type coins (ie replace a 58 Indian Eagle with a 65)? Sell separately and then take all cash to a large show (I’m going to FUN in Jan) or explore trades plus cash at the show?
I’m a show only buyer these days.
Thanks
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While trades can work, far more often than not, they tend to complicate things and prevent successful purchases by collectors. So if you know you’re going to part with the lower grade example, I’d recommend doing so, without trying to trade it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
In my limited experience I have done better selling thru a venue like the BST or Great Collections as opposed to selling or trading at a show.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Agreed. The odds of the highest 'bidding' dealer also having what you are want are low. Two separate transactions.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
Hmmm, I tend to give more in trade than an out right purchase. Especially if it is like kind and most especially if I like what is being traded.
Maybe this doesn’t apply to you, but most dealers/sellers who allow “more in trade” do so because they’re getting a very strong price for their coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've been able to afford a few coins that would normally be out of reach because of trades. In most cases, I could have sold my coin for a little more than I received in trade (given time), but I would be taking the risk the the coin I wanted would no longer be available. Overall, in the few times I've traded for expensive coins, I've appreciated the opportunity, and I have not regretted the experience.
I usually find a nicer one at a fair price from wherever, and buy it.
Then, sell the old one for a fair price to whoever wants to buy it.
No need to complicate things by requiring a "trade", but if an easy trade offer falls in my lap, that would be fine too, but it hasn't happened.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Only TRADES I've done successfully was for bullion.
I've only done it a few times, but have had success with asking for the straight up price and price with the trade. It gives you options
Being a player in RCI is about buying and selling and hopefully making money. It is not same thing as real estate where you sell your house in Irvine and trade up to a beach mansion at Carmel by the sea.
I buy or sell coins not much into trades.
Thankfully, I don’t know too many people would be willing to accept 70% of CDN bid for an AU58 Indian Eagle, which was given an an example in the first post. That would be an absurd % in back of melt.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with MFeld.
My observation is that most of the time the trade merely facilitates the sale. The vast majority of trades I've seen involved less money being allowed for the traded coin so that the dealer could easily turn a profit while "dumping" it to a specialist or to a dealer known to need that coin for a customer.
The best way to upgrade is NOT to upgrade.
Rather than buy what you can afford and try to upgrade later, it is far better to wait and buy the better coin first. Unfortunately, most collectors aren't disciplined enough to wait.
If you are upgrading, I agree with @Mfeld, treat it as 2 separate transactions. No dealer wants to downgrade their inventory. If you are getting a sweetheart deal in a trade, start looking hard for the hidden problem in the coin you are getting or the hidden green in the coin you are trading.
No interest in being dumping ground.
It doesn't, especially when trading like kind...Barber Halves! I pretty much split the profit between the 2 with a little hedge my way I suppose.
Edit to add...I would wager somewhere between 25-50% of my coin show sales involve a trade. Maybe it's a southern thing?
Reminds me of what Consumer Reports advised years ago about trading in your car for a new one: first nail down an acceptable price for the new car, then agree on a fair value for the used car, and pay the difference. In practice, rarely seems to work out that way though!
Sell it then add cash on top to buy the grade you want. If you've know the dealer for many year's then sometimes they'll be happy to work with you. For instance i traded 2 common 64 morgans and added cash for a DMPL only because he could move them.
I have never traded coins....I just buy and keep them...
Cheers, RickO
Don’t wait and buy the better coin first, where’s the fun in that?? There’s (almost) always a better coin somewhere out there to wait for, but then you’re not a collector, you’re a waiter. Plus when the “right” coin comes along you have no hands on experience with lesser coins of the same type, so you’re primed to make an expensive mistake.
I like to liquidate my lesser holdings, first. I can then get the best price, after shopping them around, or else sending them to auction......depending on the coin. I like sell to dealers whenever possible and if the offer is fair.
Then, I have available cash to negotiate with, when the right and/or better coin comes around.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Thanks
I buy the best I can at the time while keeping my eyes open in the future.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I've done a few trades at local shows and did ok, but cash is always king.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
This premise does not make sense without qualifiers. I trust the first Indian Eagle you bought was not the best you would have for the rest of your life, so at some point most everyone will upgrade. Last year I upgraded my MS63 Saints, which I had for many years, to an MS65+ CAC.
Except for Indian Quarter Eagles I'm mostly a type collector. I'm actually very happy with my AU58 CAC Eagle, and I spent a long time searching for it. Most I found, even some at MS64 were junk/melt to my eyes, but of course some of the higher grade examples have stunning eye appeal and it got me thinking about exploring a trade plus cash for an upgrade at the upcoming FUN show. After reminding myself what is out there, I would not part with my current example without something better in hand so if I upgrade I will just buy it and then sell my other coin after.
I have only rarely traded and was curious about the consensus on the practice.
At some point, most everyone will upgrade. I said that - read the second sentence in my second paragraph.
What I also said, and which needs no qualifiers, is that it is ALWAYS inefficient to upgrade. You would ALWAYS be better off buying the coin you want for the rest of your life. Collectors, however, are rarely that disciplined or have that much foresight.
No, you didn’t write that. You should re-read your own post. You made a smart alec reply about most collectors not having the discipline to wait, making assumptions about those who decide to upgrade.
Your advice is nonsense without qualifiers because resources, interests, knowledge, and tastes will change over time and upgrades are a regular part of any collection interest. I started with circulated wheaties in the 70’s....what was I thinking? 🙄
I don't care what your resources are. It was inefficient to upgrade from circulated wheaties to top pop wheaties. Period. No qualifiers required. As I've, said, but you deny: most collectors don't do it that way. And it is simply inefficient because of the cost involved. Now, of course, if you buy a coin 30 years ago and upgrade it today, it looks like you "made money" on the coin. But, in fact, I almost 100% guarantee that any price increase for your coin is less than if you had bought the better coin 25 years ago.
As for what I said, it's right here:
"Rather than buy what you can afford and try to upgrade later, it is far better to wait and buy the better coin first. Unfortunately, most collectors aren't disciplined enough to wait."
That is not at all a smart alec reply. It is a flat statement of what you said: most collectors always upgrade because they aren't disciplined enough to wait to buy the better coin. Maybe "lacking foresight" could also be added. But it is a statement of fact, not an insult or anything else. I bought stuff I shouldn't have because I had to fill a hole or buy something to feel like I was "collecting".
I'm not sure why you think any of that is either untrue or an insult. It's the way 99% of collections were built. Even Hansen seems to do it. [Although that me be because he buys whole collections and then gets stuff he doesn't need or want, I don't really follow his acquisitions that closely.] It's against our nature to buy one good coin per year. We'd rather buy 25 mediocre coins and try to upgrade them later.
Hmmm. Well, I generally agree with @MFeld , but there are times that I've been able to swing a trade. Usually, I work out a cash deal first and then ask the dealer if they'd be interested in a trade. This works best face-to-face. If they're really not interested or if the offer is disappointing, I don't push it, but on occasion it works great. It depends on the dealer, and it's usually easier with someone with whom you have a good working relationship.
The other thing, that should be remembered is that you shouldn't trade a coin in a lower grade that you love for a coin in a higher graded holder that's just OK. Play the registry game if you want, but make sure you're actually upgrading!
I did this with a Barber half, sold a coin at small loss, replaced it with a very expensive "upgrade" and then shortly thereafter found my old coin on a dealer's website in a higher graded holder with green bean. Curiously, many years ago when this happened @MFeld looked at the coin I was selling and asked me "Why would you want to sell this one?" I doubt he remembers.......
Lesson learned.