09s vdb Lincoln cent

Chessman · October 11, 2019 4:02PM

I picked this up today for $600, what do experts here think of grade and value? Afterwards I stopped at a coin shop where we compared the s and the vdb with online images of real and fakes and it looked ok to us amateurs.

291fifth · October 11, 2019 4:14PM

Is that corrosion on the obverse or just dirt?

BuffaloIronTail · October 11, 2019 5:18PM

VF-35 at the least. Probably just makes XF-40.

Pete

JBK · October 11, 2019 5:53PM

You are more daring than I am. I would never buy such a coin raw.

7Jaguars · October 11, 2019 6:15PM

Verd on Abe's collarline. Hope it is removable without too much trauma. I'm otherwise in the 35 camp, but think it may have a chance at 40.

mustangmanbob · October 11, 2019 6:58PM

I would send it in and request conservation on a coin of this magnitude. Any grading point is significant, and authenticity is key.

mannie gray · October 11, 2019 8:10PM

It has an overall corroded look.
I am not liking the brick red hues I am seeing.
Might just be the images though.
Good luck!
Hard to tell from your pics but there are only 4 obverse dies for this coin.
Make sure yours is one of them.

Hemispherical · October 11, 2019 8:19PM

@Chessman

I agree with @mustangmanbob.

Get it authenticated (and graded) and conserved.

Please post pics of the results, it’s always nice to see before and after pics.

coinbuf · October 11, 2019 9:08PM

Color and surfaces look off but that could be the affect of taking the pic with the coin in the holder. I cannot blow up the image enough but the mm and the "D" of VDB looks not quite right, this could again be the 2x2 affecting the image. If you can post a better closeup image of the mm and VDB out of the 2x2, that would make it easier to decide if its authentic.

Grade wise I would grade it VF35 but the spot on the obv is in a very focal area and imo reduces its value, at $600 if its real you did fine. I doubt that that spot can be conserved from the pic but an in hand exam could prove otherwise, if you do decide to send it in please update this thread with the result.

1Mike1 · October 12, 2019 12:15AM

I would ask PCGS to conserve and grade it. I agree with 35.

291fifth · October 12, 2019 1:36AM

By purchasing a coin like this with apparent need of "conservation" you have unfortunately inherited a problem. The black "dirt" spot on the obverse may well hide corrosion underneath. If you can I would return the coin for a refund.

Problem aside I would grade the coin 30-35 but not 40. So far as authenticity goes I am no expert on these so I can't comment. The 1909-S VDB is a coin that should only be purchased already slabbed.

ricko · October 12, 2019 9:49AM

I would not purchase such a coin raw like that....Good luck with the submission and let us know what happens. Cheers, RickO

WCC · October 13, 2019 5:44PM

@291fifth said:
By purchasing a coin like this with apparent need of "conservation" you have unfortunately inherited a problem. The black "dirt" spot on the obverse may well hide corrosion underneath. If you can I would return the coin for a refund.

Problem aside I would grade the coin 30-35 but not 40. So far as authenticity goes I am no expert on these so I can't comment. The 1909-S VDB is a coin that should only be purchased already slabbed.

Agree and while it isn't included in the OP what their budget was, I would also have bought one in better quality. My recollection is that, due to the heavy demand for this coin, the price spreads up to MS-63 are not that wide. I recall about $1200 for an MS-63 BN. The price has gone nowhere for years, so I would have been in no rush to buy it and saved up for a better one.

mr1931S · October 13, 2019 5:54PM

there are only 4 obverse dies for this coin.

This and make sure the V.D.B. is correct for 1909-S.

jmski52 · October 13, 2019 5:57PM

What looks like a corrosion spot in a prime focal area would've been a deal-killer for me at any price.

Sandman70gt · October 13, 2019 8:16PM

I'm also not liking the green corrosion on the obverse, but I am more concerned with the VDB.

Compare this coin facts with yours. The positioning of the letters isn't correct for 09s vdb.
The D. and B. aren't parallel to one another and the B. isn't aligned with the 'E' in America properly, It appears to be rotated to the left, the D. rotated to the right.
The bottom portion of the D. Is not correct either. It should slant downward at the base.

I would return it if possible.

privatecoin · October 13, 2019 9:25PM

Some of us are just happy to get any authentic S V.D.B.....

PerryHall · October 14, 2019 1:56AM

I can't make a proper evaluation of your coin from your pics. Can we get better pics without the holder and with better lighting? A coin like this is well worth getting slabbed especially for authentication purposes.

jdimmick · October 14, 2019 5:10AM

It looks like there night be minor micro porosity on this coin and therefore would possibly receive the enviormental net grade. I would use the conserve surface as well, maybe paying the fee, they might fix it, and possibly holder it in regular holder.

Genuine coin, not an issue, I can see what I need to , to determine its good

JBK · October 14, 2019 5:21AM

@PerryHall said:
A coin like this is well worth getting slabbed especially for authentication purposes.

Am I the only one who suspects that someone might have already tried?

lkenefic · October 14, 2019 8:50AM

I bought mine raw from my local B&M dealer and sent it in for authentication / grading. It is possible to get a real one raw.

The OP coin definitely has a couple of issues, but if it's real, it might be worth the asking price. It's definitely worth sending it in to get it authenticated even if it doesn't straight grade...

lcoopie · October 14, 2019 10:34AM

What did the coin shop expert think?

This is not a game for amateurs imo.

7Jaguars · October 14, 2019 11:04AM

I got one in an English coin auction raw as it looked good and hosts graded MS64RB. It is very nice and looked legit from the start but like others, felt a slab necessary on this.

segoja · October 14, 2019 1:04PM

Does not look good to me

Kliao · October 14, 2019 4:11PM

Good luck hope you do well

lcoopie · October 14, 2019 6:37PM

What does luck have to do with it?

winesteven · October 15, 2019 3:42PM

@lcoopie said:
What does luck have to do with it?

While the coin speaks for itself with PCGS, the member wishing him luck and hoping he does well, is due to the fact that the replies to this post as a whole have not determined definitively what the objective outcome will actually be. As such, it’s a nice thing to hope the owner has good luck in that objective final result turning out well for the owner.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 16, 2019 5:47AM

The "B" concerns me due to the cross bar angle.

giorgio11 · October 16, 2019 6:48AM

I don't like it although I wish the photos were better. A clear shot of the entire reverse would help but I agree the VDB looks off.

Kind regards,

George

matt_dac · October 16, 2019 6:51AM

Man this thread has legs! For most people, buying a relatively expensive key coin raw is a tremendous risk. I would never buy such a coin raw. In this day and age, I would expect it was offered raw for a reason (cracked out of a details slab, etc.) and would prefer the higher cost slabbed examples as insurance. Of course, there are some examples of raw key coins that are perfectly fine and I hope you found one, but the proof will be in the pudding. Good luck with the grading process and please do share how you make out.

lcoopie · October 16, 2019 2:48PM

I’m glad they take returns.

grip · October 16, 2019 3:04PM

As said, the B don't look good.

Kliao · October 16, 2019 6:55PM

Best of luck!

fc · October 17, 2019 3:49PM

Didn't we have a thread just like this a bit ago with a Hawaiian? ;-)

7Jaguars · October 17, 2019 8:03PM

That one IMO a lot more clearly bogus, this one not.
I, for one, am rooting for it being genuine but can't call it.
Remember I did pull raw out and hosts graded it 64RB, but I did pay 1200 for mine (bigger risk, but coin looked great).

jmlanzaf · October 18, 2019 4:50AM

@matt_dac said:
Man this thread has legs! For most people, buying a relatively expensive key coin raw is a tremendous risk. I would never buy such a coin raw. In this day and age, I would expect it was offered raw for a reason (cracked out of a details slab, etc.) and would prefer the higher cost slabbed examples as insurance. Of course, there are some examples of raw key coins that are perfectly fine and I hope you found one, but the proof will be in the pudding. Good luck with the grading process and please do share how you make out.

I agree with you.

These are actually not hard to authenticate in mid grades or higher as there are only 4 obverse dies and there is a lot of photos/literature on the subject. But, I would authenticate it before I bought it and not rely on either this forum (based on a grainy photo). Sending it in to PCGS is a good strategy as long as there is a return privilege from the dealer.

jmlanzaf · October 18, 2019 4:50AM

@7Jaguars said:
That one IMO a lot more clearly bogus, this one not.
I, for one, am rooting for it being genuine but can't call it.
Remember I did pull raw out and hosts graded it 64RB, but I did pay 1200 for mine (bigger risk, but coin looked great).

Yes, but that Hawaiian turned out to be real!

jmlanzaf · October 18, 2019 4:52AM

The VDB doesn't look right but the photo is awful - through a film, blurry and at an angle. It looks like an added VDB as the angle on the D and B aren't correct. But I wouldn't stake anything on that opinion because of the photo quality.

Hemispherical · October 18, 2019 5:20AM

@Chessman said:
The chances seem to be diminishing on this coin; it arrived at ICG, so I'm hoping for something definitive from Skip and co. and will share the news.

Anxiously waiting...

JBK · October 18, 2019 1:33PM

(I gave you a "like" because you reported back, not because it turned out to be fake).

Very interesting - so maybe the VDB was OK after all, just not for an S mint coin.

Now what happens to the coin? Wash, rinse, repeat. Someone else will buy it and try to get it slabbed. It would be nice if the seller would let you have it for free and then you could get it slabbed in a "counterfeit" label for reference purposes.

lcoopie · October 18, 2019 1:34PM

Let us know if you get your money back

coinbuf · October 18, 2019 1:38PM

Sorry to hear this, happy for you that you can get your money back.

fc · October 18, 2019 6:43PM

I wish we could get super high res picks of that date and mint mark.

winesteven · October 19, 2019 12:29AM

This should be a good lesson learned by many, not just @Chessman. Fortunately for him, he got lucky, as it sounds like he’ll get his money back. However, the Jewelry and “so-called Coin Shop” should also reimburse him in full for the authentication and round trip shipping fees for having sold a fake altered coin! The lesson learned is to buy any coin of “value” in a slab already authenticated and graded. As we see, at times raw coins are no bargain.

09s vdb Lincoln cent

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