Poll for wealthy coin collectors

RedstoneCoins

I'm not a wealthy person, however I have always been curious about other the reasoning behind those coin collectors who are.

Understand that, the reason why I ask this is because I believe most wealthy people got there (or retain what they have earned) with caution, and I basically am curious as to how you view coin collecting:

DO YOU COLLECT COINS AS AN INVESTMENT FIRST, OR AS A HOBBY FIRST?

This poll is only for collectors who have spent $250K+ on coins (excluding bullion coins like Gold Eagles/Silver Eagles).

POLL IS ANONYMOUS. No need to comment unless you want to. Comments welcome from those of us who are not wealthy.

Thanks for your input.

Coinstartled

I give Stellas out for Halloween.

DCW

@Coinstartled said:
I give Stellas out for Halloween.

Address please!

Oldhoopster

You really think you'll get any meaningful data? How are you going to screen the respondents to make sure they meet your criteria?

smokincoin

I can't even afford "just show the results please"!

BryceM

A key concept here is opportunity cost and the potential future value of an investment. To compare, an index mutual fund will usually turn 7-9% interest per year. That equates to reliably doubling your initial investment every 8-10 years, with a level of risk that is acceptable to most people..... and that doesn’t include dividends.

So, just “breaking even” is a horrible financial proposition. If your average collector sold after a 10-year hold and made 50%, they’d think they hit the lottery, but in reality they should double their money to do as well as the market. If people are honest with themselves, they’ll realize that collecting is a hobby. I don’t think you’ll find many wealthy people who got there in large part due to their coin collection. There are a few, but really only those with superior knowledge, a bit of luck, good connections, and access to the best coins. There are a large number of other businessmen/women who have made a ton of money in the numismatic industry (dealers, auction houses, grading, publications) but that’s different. Bullion-stackers run into similar issues (no dividends, long historical doubling times, etc).

The opportunity to make an even larger return is there (upgrade game, cherrypicking, huge market upturn) and I think this energizes the gambling/speculating part of us. The investment risk associated with collectibles of any kind is unfortunately high (fickle markets).

So, in a financial sense, my advice is to collect with your “fun money,” treat any return or profit as unexpected gravy, but fully fund your retirement plan first. While not wealthy by many definitions, I bet you can guess how I voted.

PerryHall

@Coinstartled said:
I give Stellas out for Halloween.

Trick or Treat!

2ndCharter

__This poll is only for collectors who have spent $250K+ on coins __

Do you have another poll for us folks who have spent that much on paper money?

ricko

I have seen enough polls (political and otherwise), and conducted many as a professional, to know that they are mostly rubbish. So much depends on wording, who is asked, where conducted, when conducted, that polls can be indicative of whatever the agency wants them to show. Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

I don't think this poll will yield any data that is at all meaningful for the coin market as a whole.

A millionaire might well spend $10k on a coin without any thought as to what that coin might be worth. But that sentiment will be very different depending on what fraction of their net worth that coin represents. Phrased a better way: If I'm worth $1000, I should worry about the $100 coin and losing the $100. If I'm worth $1 million, I don't have to be concerned with a $10k loss on a coin much less a $100 loss.

And even if we somehow learned why a millionaire collects coins, who says they are right?

My personal opinion - no matter what the rich folks do: Coins SHOULD ONLY BE BOUGHT FOR PLEASURE. [How do you like that? I'm not hedging at all.] You can also buy them for PURE SPECULATION. [It's not investing, it's speculating. Ask the guy who spent $10k for an MS63 Hawaiian commem in 1990.]

RedstoneCoins

@Oldhoopster said:
You really think you'll get any meaningful data? How are you going to screen the respondents to make sure they meet your criteria?

It does not benefit at all someone who isn't qualified to answer the question, to lie. It incurs no cost, other than a moment of time, for someone who is qualified to answer the question, to answer.

At a certain point, you just have to have a little faith in people to be honest. There is nothing to stop me or anyone from lying and claiming to be qualified to respond to the question. But there is no benefit to do so, other than to screw with people. And if that's the case, then I misjudged the moral character of the constituents of this board, which I surely hope I did not.

Catbert

I think there are more morel characters here than moral.

Insider2

I wish I were qualified to play.

MilesWaits

Boy, keep digging that hole in record CU time!

DNADave

I opened this just to see I would meet the “wealthy” definition. I didn’t by a long shot.

Smudge

I cannot afford to pay attention to this thread.

matt_dac

You have a lot of strong commentary for a brand new member. I suggest more discretion, calm down, and read the room. Most commentary is light hearted.

daltex

It was pointed out to me recently that, with $15 TRILLION or so in government bonds paying a negative yield, it now makes sense to buy physical gold for the interest it kicks off.

LindeDad

Wrong door!!!!

oldabeintx

I know these posts are largely anonymous, and this is a "private poll", but really.....?

DNADave

So we have 100 members here that have spent a quarter of a million on coins.
LOL

hchcoin

Great post @BryceM

DisneyFan

@BryceM said:

So, in a financial sense, my advice is to collect with your “fun money,” treat any return or profit as unexpected gravy, but fully fund your retirement plan first.

So different from the advice given by the major dealers twenty years ago.

BryceM

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

jmlanzaf

@DisneyFan said:

@BryceM said:

So, in a financial sense, my advice is to collect with your “fun money,” treat any return or profit as unexpected gravy, but fully fund your retirement plan first.

So different from the advice given by the major dealers twenty years ago.

There are still COLLECTORS on this board that will use the I word. I just figure they don't know how to calculate compound yields

BryceM

I imagine the percentage of the US population with a working knowledge of present value, future value, and opportunity cost is a single digit, especially away from metro financial centers. It's sad, but most people live paycheck to paycheck. Those who understand math make very different decisions.

jdimmick

I am not eligible to participate on the poll, as I am not wealthy, although I have spend over 250 on my collection.

But I will add, that a few of my customers are: I have two that are quite wealthy, most are bullion hounds, but they do by occasional coins, and buddy let me tell you they are tight!! They don't lavishly spend even on other stuff. Both of these two guys are self made, didn't inherit it.

I do have an additional customer quite wealthy, but his was inherited and he spends like no tomorrow buying anything and everything under the sun. (not just coins & bullion)

RedstoneCoins

@matt_dac said:
You have a lot of strong commentary for a brand new member. I suggest more discretion, calm down, and read the room. Most commentary is light hearted.

In my comment, which you were responding to, you will note that I said, "At a certain point, you just have to have a little faith in people to be honest. "

What exactly did I say that indicated that I was not calm? I'm perfectly calm. My comment simply indicated disagreement with the person who insinuated that those answering the poll question were dishonest and not qualified to answer the question.

I was defending the people of this board with my statement.

You should have read it more carefully.

RedstoneCoins

@2ndCharter said:
__This poll is only for collectors who have spent $250K+ on coins __

Do you have another poll for us folks who have spent that much on paper money?

I am contemplating doing that. However, it would be much harder to give a caveat within the poll, as I did here for bullion, which has a different set of factors, variables, and influences which determine the price and overall risk over time.

Admittedly, I am not as familiar with paper money as I am with coins. Maybe paper money which is bought for little over face value, or which is still redeemable/exchangeable/legal tender would be an analogous caveat to bullion, respective to the market? I'm not sure. It deserves thought.

If you could devise a poll of equal nature to my poll for coins, I would be open minded to hearing the wording.

Thank you.

RedstoneCoins

@DNADave said:
So we have 100 members here that have spent a quarter of a million on coins.
LOL

Rare coins, and coin-collecting in general, is a multi-billion dollar market.

To think that 100 people could have collectively spent $25M on coins is neither impossible nor implausible.

You're on the official website for the largest, most prestigious coin grading company in the world. The people here are more likely than anyone (for the most part) to be particularly dedicated to buying, selling, trading, and collecting coins.

If ever there was a place particularly well-suited to ask such a question, and be likely to yield honest responses, this would be the best forum for that.

mustangmanbob

Thank goodness I am in the club.

The $ is used for the Argentine Peso, worth a little less than 2 cents US so that equals USD $4250. The poll, since it is addressing an international audience, did not specific a nationality, obviously not to shame non US Citizens by excluding 90% of the world. Thank you for being politically woke.

I am so glad the poll was available to common folk like myself, as I measure wealth in many other ways that just enslaved electrons or jots of ink on paper. .

RedstoneCoins

@mustangmanbob said:
Thank goodness I am in the club.

The $ is used for the Argentine Peso, worth a little less than 2 cents US so that equals USD $4250. The poll, since it is addressing an international audience, did not specific a nationality, obviously not to shame non US Citizens by excluding 90% of the world. Thank you for being politically woke.

I am so glad the poll was available to common folk like myself, as I measure wealth in many other ways that just enslaved electrons or jots of ink on paper. .

You were mistaken Bob.

This is an elitist poll, for (rich) Americans only.

The Dollar is a predominantly American currency symbol.

Poll is closed to commoners. Now please, leave before I have to call a bouncer to escort you out of the thread.

Malibu2016

$10 and $20 pre 1933 gold coins because that's what I like, but I won't over pay for a coin. So I must say that it is an investment for me with a long time horizon (gold value hopefully will rise). I believe everyone would like to see gains though, on the 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium coin ha ha

jmski52

I have a $1 Trillion coin by Daniel Carr. Does that count?

jmlanzaf

@RedstoneCoins said:

@mustangmanbob said:
Thank goodness I am in the club.

The $ is used for the Argentine Peso, worth a little less than 2 cents US so that equals USD $4250. The poll, since it is addressing an international audience, did not specific a nationality, obviously not to shame non US Citizens by excluding 90% of the world. Thank you for being politically woke.

I am so glad the poll was available to common folk like myself, as I measure wealth in many other ways that just enslaved electrons or jots of ink on paper. .

You were mistaken Bob.

This is an elitist poll, for (rich) Americans only.

The Dollar is a predominantly American currency symbol.

Poll is closed to commoners. Now please, leave before I have to call a bouncer to escort you out of the thread.

I know you're kidding, but the Dollar is not a predominantly American currency symbol.

https://lexico.com/en/explore/what-is-the-origin-of-the-dollar-sign

BStrauss3

I voted and I don't qualify so there....

RedstoneCoins

@BStrauss3 said:
I voted and I don't qualify so there....

How dare you!

You are hereby banished from the board. PCGS will also no longer grade your coins, or if they do, everything will come back "Cleaned, Tooled, Damaged, Scratched, Repaired, P01 Details" all somehow in 1-point font to fit on the holder label.

/sarcasm

BStrauss3

They do that anyway...

MrEureka

I consider collecting primarily a hobby, but a big part of the fun is making smart decisions and being proved right when the time comes to sell.

PTVETTER

@Coinstartled said:
I give Stellas out for Halloween.

Wasn't Stella on the honymooners?

PTVETTER

sorry that was alice!
my bad....

MilesWaits

Streetcar Named “Stella”

Walkerfan