Confusion Will Be My Epitaph.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
So I submitted a medal to NGC via NCS and it arrived home today.
Here is a link to the NGC cert. check page which shows the already slabbed medal as it arrived, an MS62.
https://ngccoin.com/certlookup/2837703-001/62/
Here is the obverse image that I paid for and NGC e-mailed me, an MS63.
My question is simple: How does a medal get encapsulated and imaged as an MS63 and then get taken out of that holder and encapsulated and imaged as an MS62 to be returned to the submitter with the the previous images?? I have never seen anything like this.
Al H.
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I worked around the "prevent save" on their images to see if the EXIF information provides further insight, but it doesn't.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Why are you asking us? AFAIK, no one who handled your metal at NGC is posting here.
Everyone knows that humans work at each of the major grading services. All kinds of "things" are possible and the bigger the TPGS, the more "unexplained" occurrences can happen.
Perhaps CU should allow TPGS bashing from now on? I'm sure we ALL have silly examples.
Better yet, CU could add an automated response prior to the discussion being closed:
PICK UP THE PHONE, DIAL THE NUMBER,
and speak to someone who MAY care!
John, I had thought of that but after the package was mailed to me the images were sent. my thinking is that if it was the simple insert problem and they had changed it and re-imaged that they would send those pictures. I can't call them until Monday for a good explanation.
They do this to stimulate your mind.... gives you an opportunity to exercise your skills of analysis and ward off mental deterioration that comes with old age....
I know... I am no help at all.... 
Cheers, RickO
Gradeflation elimination ? That's my guess. LOL.
You got something stronger that milk in your coffee as the slab label in NGC Cert Verification scan states MS62.
Edited to add your other photo in the OP isn't loading.
It's interesting, but not terribly confusing. Somewhere along the way, they changed the grade. I'm only surprised that anyone would do it AFTER slabbing. I would think once finalized raw that it is left alone.
As for the wrong image being sent, that's easy. They had 2 images , they sent the wrong one.
Bottom line, ask them if you care that much. I would be curious why/if they re-inspect after holdered.
I'm not sure why @insider2 is mad. Did you change jobs, Skip?
Just another good reason to switch TPG service.
Frank, I changed the image route so it should work now.
Just another good reason to switch TPG service.
not really, as was stated above, everyone makes mistakes. this one was just odd and in a roundabout way it may speak well of NGC. they (maybe) noticed a mistake prior to shipment and actually cracked the shell to fix it instead of sending a "mechanical error" that is seen too often.
this will probably be rectified by a phone call on Monday, a hoped for explanation and then the correct images.
Mad? What gives you that idea, the large letters?
Since we cannot know everything about everything, I was taught that one sign of an educated person was to know where to look for an answer to a question. Because of this, I made a suggestion to my Internet acquaintance Mr. Keets. Obviously, Mr. Keets is an educated person as he knew exactly where to go for an answer to his question on Monday.
My friendly post using great, big letters, was actually directed to any future members who have not figured out to go to the source for answers concerning TPGS's rather than asking opinions from "no nothings" such as myself!
Whatever number they put on the holder, it is a really attractive medal.
JMHO, I was surprised at the grade as I saw it as MS65 and essentially mark free. the color was "saved" by the application of Lacquer almost certainly close to issue. that was the reasoning for the trip to NCS/NGC. while I might disagree with the grade, my principal thoughts were to remove the Lacquer and get some protection for the medal because of the size --- 4+ inches in diameter, 26+ ounces in the holder and over a half inch thick with the detail above the rims.
The whole thing is a bit confusing.
Strange... Please let us know once you speak to NGC.
Oh, and it is a cool medal, BTW.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
just this morning I mailed its two counterparts out to PCGS, both are smaller at 59mm. Eglit 105 has a different obv. and the same rev. while Eglit 107 is the same in a reduced size.
Love the detail on that medal, at any grade.
Huge medal! I'd like to see a shot of it in the slab if you get around to it.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I like it, at either grade, but it would make me a little nuts too.
If you get it, and open the box to find it in an MS64 holder, please update the thread.
Any chance the "glamour" shot was taken BEFORE the coin was encapsulated? And the final photo is a photo-shop job putting the coin photo into a generic holder photo? (In which case, the error might just be a manual input issue).
The case against that theory is the bar code and label, which would have to be produced by some other graphics system....which seems like a lot of work.
Any chance the "glamour" shot was taken BEFORE the coin was encapsulated?
the medal looks like the pictures, nothing enhanced at all by the photography..
Wasn't really the point of my post. Was suggesting that the photo was taken before slabbing to make the best photo possible, and the coin was never actually in the 63 graded holder. The photo-shop job adding the slab was just wrong. (Pure speculation)
The photo-shop job adding the slab was just wrong.
my understanding is that there was/is no "photoshopping" of the image into a holder because NGC offers two different services. the first is an "Internet Image" with the slabbed coin/medal such as I have, the second is similar to what PCGS offers of the coin/medal raw with the insert and logo.
If one looks at the plastic rim around the medal in terms of thickness of the gray (shadowed) inner lining right next to the medal, for the whole 360 degrees around it, both the 62 and the 63 images are identical in that respect. I highly doubt that when they take images of coins/medals in slabs, that this would be the case because the medal would sit slightly different in each holder. And then the angle to the coin when imaged would have to be identical - i.e. the camera, lights, and placement of the slab identical when shooting - that might be the case, but the medal sitting in the plastic exactly the same in both cases? Never in my experience with NGC full rim holders and almost never with the prongs. So I think there was some photoshopping somewhere as in my view the only change in the image of the slab is 63 to 62.....
Edited to add: although the morphology on the edge of the slabs are different so it does look like different plastic over the holder, so looks like my arguments above are incorrect, never mind........
Best, SH
both the 62 and the 63 images are identical in that respect
that isn't what I see but you guys are free to discuss and argue that point. have fun.
You guys are over-analyzing this...the finalizer saw it was for Keets and dropped the grade...easy-peasy.
This is a joke, only a joke, I know it didn't happen this way...no coins were harmed in the making of this humor.
I ran that through my mind and dismissed it early on!!!
I think the scenario presented in the first reply in this thread is a possibility. Either that, or the coin was graded 63 initially (then the photo shot and sent), but upon verification/quality control check, the grade was lowered to 62.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, drawing from your prior experience(s) did you ever do something like that?? it seems odd to me to "verify" after encapsulation. could you explain the process-flow from initial grading to shipping??
When I was a grader, as best I remember, we weren’t doing images.
But after the coins had been graded and encapsulated, they were brought back into the grading room for a quality control check.
I spent a good part of my days checking to be sure the coins were placed and turned properly in their cores, making sure the holders were sonically sealed, checking the labels to be sure they displayed the correct information and checking the coins to see if a possible grade change (up or down) might be warranted. I often showed coins to another grader and discussed that possibility, as coins can look noticeably better or worse in their holders than they do out of them.
If the grade was changed, the coins were re-encapsulated and brought back into the grading room for another quality control check. Once I or another grader OK’d the order, it made its way to the shipping department.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just a pause in the action to exclaim, "I'm glad someone with more experience than me has noticed that the look changes sometimes in a holder!!"
I thought I might be going nuts.
Carry on.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/178581351
Maybe you found an ngc "bug"
HAPPY COLLECTING
I just don't know. I never have been a a fan of NGC. Just my opinion. They are a fine company for a lot of people.
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I agree that it is a nice medal...odd about the photos / holder.
K
I would love to believe this is how things are done today.
Lance.