1909 VDB cent -- the case of the missing dots
errormaven
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Are any members of this forum familiar with 1909 VDB cents in which the dots between the letters are missing and replaced with faint, shallow, circular depressions? A discussion of the phenomenon can be found here: https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=355205&whichpage=1
Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
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LOL, humorous link. Thanks.
if you look at enough 1909 VDB coins, especially in circ., you find strong dots, weak dots, partial dots, missing dots, two dots, etc.
More useful is to look for an obvious 1910 VDB so we can put this one to rest one way or the other.
The key questions are why the dots should be missing when the letters themselves are quite strong and why the dots should be replaced by circular depressions.
the real key question is where are the circular depressions. It appears the arrows are in the wrong position and one depression look like a rim nick. LOL.
Now if the dots were filled on the die, it would be possible to see a tiny depression.
That's certainly possible, but the extreme specificity of the "grease" deposits leaves me wondering.
Aliens, Crop circles, and now missing dots.
Not helpful.
I read the thread that was linked. Lots of speculation and outright guessing. One thing is for sure - if you stare at it long enough you will or will not see something, i.e. pareidolia.
Some possible explanations from the other thread:
polished dies
initials were hand punched into the working die and the periods were left off
possible forgery (not worth adding VDB to a 1909 P, but maybe this was an unfinished S-VDB?)
Wake me up when we have a winner.
That is not a coin worthy of basing any opinion on anything about any other coin.
None of the scenarios proposed by JBK account for the faint, circular depressions. So we can at least eliminate those.
Could those depressions be man-made, either by grinding or impact?
Not saying that is necessarily what happened, but if that is what might have happened (if it could be replicated that way) then it is not much different than all those PMD coins that new posters think are errors....
That's a possibility. It could also be a case of a chipped working hub. When a piece breaks off a working hub, it usually breaks off just below the plane of the hub face, leaving a shallow depression where the raised element used to be. And I have seen foreign working hubs in which chips develop in adjacent, but entirely separated design elements.
I believe (and of course I do not have the cent in hand) that the 'depressions' are wishful thinking, making surface discoloration anomalies into something they are not. Cheers, RickO
@errormaven
I know the pic is posted at CCF but can you please post it here so the thread is self-contained with the oic and we don’t have to flip back and forth.
Coins with filled dies often have evidence of that fact in the form of slight depressions:
Interesting. Thanks for that image. Might I use it for a column?
@errormaven interestingly, I have a 1909 VDB that only has one period between the V and D. The period is strong. I thought it was odd and now I read your post. I'll add a few close up images as soon as I find the binder it's in. Peace Roy
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@errormaven no evidence of weak periods only the one full period after V. If you find other info let me know. Peace Roy
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing your images.
@errormaven Mike, great to see you posting here again. My guess would also be a filled die, with the fill compacting so much that it sticks out a bit and creates a depression.
I have similar I am sending off to be authenticated/graded. My example is just like yours with only one dot after the V.
@AndrewB81 Welcome to the forum!
You may want to get some full coin photos along with a few close-ups and make your own new thread for your svdb and ask for opinions on grade and authenticity.
Yes, new thread warranted
Really good full coin and close up photos needed
Thanks for the suggestion! I need to take some better pictures of my coin. I dont think its a fake with some of the research I have done but I will be sending it off to make sure. It would be very strange to fake the VDB but only have one dot when the centered middle dot after the D is what most people look for...
Agree - I'd like to see a seperate thread for this cent. Mintmark looks a bit funny to me. And the crossbar on the B doesn't seem slanted enough - but may be a bit of circulation damage and/or lighting in the pictures.......
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"