Got bored whilst melting gold.

Jinx86

Before anyone jumps in and goes nuts over me melting $20's. These were all ethically sourced from my reject bid.
First GIF Ive made, it was quite easy on giphy.com.
Only takes about 6 min for this induction furnace to get to temp. Might have to video other things being melted now.

Weiss

Have to admit it's pretty cool to watch.

jrt103

that is awesome, would love to see more

oldstandard

I do my own silver pours to get pure gold how do you separate the metals ( gold and copper) before you pour it into 24kt bars or rounds?

ARCO

500 years worth of history...melted down for a bland, featureless blob of gold. It is still cool to watch. Does the gold become more valuable when melted and poured into a little round slug, or is just fun to do?

oldstandard

@ARCO said:
500 years worth of history...melted down for a bland, featureless blob of gold. It is still cool to watch. Does the gold become more valuable when melted and poured into a little round slug, or is just fun to do?

I know people love the American Eagles, Buffalos etc but it just takes a stroke of a pen to band Bullion with $20 gold pieces they would be protect under collectable coins. I love stacking the $20's I am with you hate to see them melted do not understand the lack of demand when they are selling for melt and safe from any bands.

Baley

Dude that's wicked cool!
More please!

jmski52

Holy crap! Awesome. I see no reason that $20 Libs can't be melted. History goes on, and is still in the making. The remaining population becomes just a little more collectable and the coins being melted are deemed to be less than desirable by the market.

Jinx86

Like I said these were all damaged and cleaned, just $100 face.

These are not refined in anyway. The alloy is the same going in as it is coming out.

Jinx86

Nevermind $200 face.

ARCO

I still do not see the point. What am I missing? Does someone pay more for gold in the form of a poured bar over a $20 lib? Doesn't the time and energy spent melting and refining (or in this case, just melting) gold lose money?

If it is just to melt and pour for the enjoyment of it, then it makes perfect sense.

davidk

@ARCO said:
I still do not see the point. What am I missing? Does someone pay more for gold in the form of a poured bar over a $20 lib? Doesn't the time and energy spent melting and refining (or in this case, just melting) gold lose money?

If it is just to melt and pour for the enjoyment of it, then it makes perfect sense.

I know which I’d buy, and which I’d not.

ricko

I see you pour it as the alloy.... however, if you wanted to, how would you go about refining it for pure gold bars? Cheers, RickO

oldstandard

@Jinx86 said:
Like I said these were all damaged and cleaned, just $100 face.

These are not refined in anyway. The alloy is the same going in as it is coming out.

Do you make new pours with them and if so how do you calculate how much copper to gold ratio is in the new pour or are you just taking it to a refiner.

Jinx86

This specific piece was made for a customer/dealer who needed to pay a client (jerk) in gold. So he wanted a known material that was cheap. This is what we came up with.

Refining in small batches is too costly. The refining process for something this size with my equipment would take 12 hours to achieve .999 purity. Im set up for gemstone recovery, I dont have a need for refining the material fully.

Overdate

The category "90% junk silver" has been around for decades.
I guess we can now add a new category, "90% junk gold".

oldstandard

@Jinx86 said:
This specific piece was made for a customer/dealer who needed to pay a client (jerk) in gold. So he wanted a known material that was cheap. This is what we came up with.

Refining in small batches is too costly. The refining process for something this size with my equipment would take 12 hours to achieve .999 purity. Im set up for gemstone recovery, I dont have a need for refining the material fully.

Understood thank you, do you ever have a need to use a refiner I noticed a lot of the refiners are paying $38.63 a gram for 90% gold with spot being $1521 the weight of a $20 is 33.43 grams that would but there buy price at about $1291 so when you are buying are you buying just to resell or buying them back far enough in case you have to use a refiner?

Skrill90

Freaking wicked!

TwoSides2aCoin

@Overdate said:
The category "90% junk silver" has been around for decades.
I guess we can now add a new category, "9167% junk gold".

Fixed it for ya.
Yes. It needs refining to get to .9995

My refinery was surprised at my purity.

Love that quick melting furnace.

Overdate

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Fixed it for ya.

Nope, I was right the first time. U.S. $20 gold is .900 gold, .100 copper. Check the Redbook.

Jinx86

.9675 is the agw of a $20, that might be what he is referring to.

Jinx86

@oldstandard
With our refiners there is no need to do anything other than melt/assay. I pay my customer(dealers) and ship dore bars to the refiner. I am not an end user for the product.

Overdate

@Jinx86 said:
.9675 is the agw of a $20, that might be what he is referring to.

I think .9167 is the fineness of modern Gold Eagles.

Jinx86

@Overdate said:

@Jinx86 said:
.9675 is the agw of a $20, that might be what he is referring to.

I think .9167 is the fineness of modern Gold Eagles.

Correct

Jinx86

@TwoSides2aCoin
Nice sand you have there

ARCO

My questions: USA issued gold coinage purity is absolute. You see the coin, you know the gold content. No assaying, no testing, no nothing required. US gold coinage issued by the US government has a purity and weight that is trustworthy and undisputed.

So, why melt it? Do customers want 90% gold poured and converted into a round or roundish bullion bar that has no trust factor, no inherent reliability, no implicit trust that the metal is of the purity is as stated? Why would anyone want gold from a US issued gold coin to be melted into a privately made, privately poured bullion round?

A producer of jewelry, private gold coins, or whatever could easily buy .999 , .995 or .900 refined gold in the form of gold pellets that could be melted or formed for whatever purpose. How does melting and refining of relatively small amounts of existing gold coinage produce a product that is more valuable than the gold it contains currently?

Why would anyone melt Junk silver, gold coinage or anything when large corporate mining operations already produce gold or silver pellets that can be converted into whatever precious metals product that would be offered to a consumer / buyer? The large scale mining operations surely have en economy of scale that can beat any attempt by a smaller buy/ smelt operation to convert alloyed metals into more refined product.

So what is the advantage to melting gold US bullion or US coinage for a producer of gold products that they could not buy already from refined gold from large miners / refiners?

PerryHall

ARCO nailed it! Only a refinery will buy a blob of gold produced by a hobbyist and even then they won't pay for it until after they assay it. Anyone else will want nothing to do with an unmarked blob of yellow metal of unknown purity.

Overdate

@ARCO said:
Why would anyone melt Junk silver, gold coinage or anything when large corporate mining operations already produce gold or silver pellets that can be converted into whatever precious metals product that would be offered to a consumer / buyer? The large scale mining operations surely have en economy of scale that can beat any attempt by a smaller buy/ smelt operation to convert alloyed metals into more refined product.

The history of 90% junk silver shows the answer to your question. Several times in the past, when the price of silver rose beyond a certain point, more and more people decided to cash out their "junk silver", and this additional supply forced the price down to well below the "melt" value of the silver in the coins. When the price difference became sufficiently wide, it became profitable for dealers to buy these coins from the general public and send them off to refineries. I was around in late 1979 and early 1980 when people were lined up outside coin shops with silver coins to sell, and bags of 90% silver were trading for 25% back of "melt". A classic example of supply and demand in action.

oldstandard

@ARCO said:
My questions: USA issued gold coinage purity is absolute. You see the coin, you know the gold content. No assaying, no testing, no nothing required. US gold coinage issued by the US government has a purity and weight that is trustworthy and undisputed.

So, why melt it? Do customers want 90% gold poured and converted into a round or roundish bullion bar that has no trust factor, no inherent reliability, no implicit trust that the metal is of the purity is as stated? Why would anyone want gold from a US issued gold coin to be melted into a privately made, privately poured bullion round?

A producer of jewelry, private gold coins, or whatever could easily buy .999 , .995 or .900 refined gold in the form of gold pellets that could be melted or formed for whatever purpose. How does melting and refining of relatively small amounts of existing gold coinage produce a product that is more valuable than the gold it contains currently?

Why would anyone melt Junk silver, gold coinage or anything when large corporate mining operations already produce gold or silver pellets that can be converted into whatever precious metals product that would be offered to a consumer / buyer? The large scale mining operations surely have en economy of scale that can beat any attempt by a smaller buy/ smelt operation to convert alloyed metals into more refined product.

So what is the advantage to melting gold US bullion or US coinage for a producer of gold products that they could not buy already from refined gold from large miners / refiners?

I think he said he melts only heavily damage gold coins like holed bent etc but he had to do this one melt for jeweler to make good to a customer. There is a dealer in Washington I see him at coin shows he said he has melted or sent to melt thousands of five $5, $2,5 Indians and also Liberties in AU condition because of low demand. He says it just ties up his money and with the deal he work out with the refiner because he average $20,000 or more a month in gold coins the refiner pays 99% of melt and they pick it up which is better then wholesale to him. I was surprised they melted the Indians I still see junk $2,5 gold Indians selling for over $200 on Ebay but time is money also who knows kind of sad.

cohodk

Is this another illustration that numismatics is dead?

That dealers are so concerned about profit that they try to squeeze out another 1 or 2% margin?

LukeMarshall

@cohodk said:
Is this another illustration that numismatics is dead?

That dealers are so concerned about profit that they try to squeeze out another 1 or 2% margin?

Or perhaps an illustration why numismatics exists?

Coin mintages vs. survival rates vs. numismatic premium.

Double eagles are obsolete currency with underlying intrinsic value of gold. Converting to modern money requires choices and it seems problem coins with little premium above the intrinsic value tend to get culled.

I like some culls though, (the ones that still exist lol) they can be very interesting at times and contribute to this hobby, i.e. chopped trades, merchant counterstamps, ect.

Jinx86

@cohodk said:
Is this another illustration that numismatics is dead?

That dealers are so concerned about profit that they try to squeeze out another 1 or 2% margin?

Try .5% if buying wholesale.

Overdate

@oldstandard said:
I was surprised they melted the Indians I still see junk $2,5 gold Indians selling for over $200 on Ebay but time is money also who knows kind of sad.

Melt value of a $2.5 Indian is about $182. Melting might be the most profitable option as it saves time and hassle, and avoids auction fees.

cohodk

@Jinx86 said:

@cohodk said:
Is this another illustration that numismatics is dead?

That dealers are so concerned about profit that they try to squeeze out another 1 or 2% margin?

Try .5% if buying wholesale.

So why participate in such a business?

Baley

It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

Downtown1974

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

Why not buy them? It’s just bullion at that point. I’d prefer a cleaned double eagle over a poured bar just as I would prefer a 1oz. AGE over a 1 oz. gold Pamp bar. I don’t remember seeing any cleaned or scratched up twenties offered on the BST when gold was in the 1200 range. With gold over 1500, none of it interests me as a buyer. Just holding until prices come back down.

Jinx86

@Downtown1974 said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

Why not buy them? It’s just bullion at that point. I’d prefer a cleaned double eagle over a poured bar just as I would prefer a 1oz. AGE over a 1 oz. gold Pamp bar. I don’t remember seeing any cleaned or scratched up twenties offered on the BST when gold was in the 1200 range. With gold over 1500, none of it interests me as a buyer. Just holding until prices come back down.

Thats just it. No one wants to buy them. So, I melt them. Since all the posts of melting $20's have come up only one person has shown interest in buying any. The market wants 999 gold, not "junk" 20's.

Downtown1974

@Jinx86 I would think the twenties would be easy to move but you would know better than I. You see a high volume of these so I imagine you’re doing whatever turns you the best profit.

PerryHall

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

Jinx86

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

Yeah, but I did sell it. And will continue to do so, until the market sees a need for "junk" $20's.

MsMorrisine

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

Yes but
Bucks deal
when I feel the gold market is showing some good buy signals.

Perhaps Jinx could open a museum.

Baley

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Jinx86

@MsMorrisine said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

Yes but
Bucks deal
when I feel the gold market is showing some good buy signals.

Perhaps Jinx could open a museum.

Offering me a small loan? Takes money to sit on money.

Jinx86

@Baley said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Volume. I made about $1800 on this transaction.

MsMorrisine

Joking

Jinx86

@MsMorrisine said:
Joking

Damn! I do love sitting on nice inventory though. Just bought 15 more 4 foot display cases for the store this summer and have had trouble keeping them looking full. That and new ideas to keep people coming in and looking.

jdimmick

I could care less what folks think, if the only buyer I can find is the melting pot, then so be it, its a going in.

cool video

Baley

@Jinx86 said:

@Baley said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Volume. I made about $1800 on this transaction.

@Jinx86 said:

@Baley said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Volume. I made about $1800 on this transaction.

I know. How much time and effort would you have spent to try to find buyers for those problem coins? Is what i meant

Baley

Capital eventually flows where it belongs.

Baley

@Jinx86 said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

Yeah, but I did sell it. And will continue to do so, until the market sees a need for "junk" $20's.

This.

Jinx86

@Baley said:

@Jinx86 said:

@Baley said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Volume. I made about $1800 on this transaction.

@Jinx86 said:

@Baley said:

@PerryHall said:

@Baley said:
It's really strange when you think about it:

"Oh, they shouldn't melt those cleaned, scratched, circulated common date twenties!"

Well, do you want to buy them then?

"Um, no, but..."

Right.

"I've melted those ugly old double eagles into blobs of metal. Do you want to buy it?"

"Um, no, but...."

I didn't think so.

You're forgetting the time amd effort to gain another dollar or 3.

Volume. I made about $1800 on this transaction.

I know. How much time and effort would you have spent to try to find buyers for those problem coins? Is what i meant

For a small lot of 20 $20's, might take 20 mins. Would only net 99% though. Would rather melt in the same amount of time for 99.5%. No hassle and 100% more fun.