Anybody recognize this Native American head token ?

dcarr

No lettering and a blank reverse. I'm wondering if this is an unfinished die trial for some sort of token ?

giorgio11

It’s a new one on me ...

Kind regards,

George

DCW

It eludes me as well, but it almost looks like some kind of souvenir token that wouldve been given out at circuses and small traveling shows of the early 20th century

1630Boston

Looking from the edge.............is the indians face higher than the rim ?

291fifth

It may have been intended as a decorative element on some sort of early twentieth century furniture, electronic or automotive item. The flat reverse would have allowed it to have been affixed to a flat surface with some type of glue.

I have never seen any medal or token with that image.

1630Boston

Looks a lot like this

originalisbest

@1630Boston said:
Looks a lot like this

Definitely the same type as the OP medal/coin/decoration is. In the case of the second piece, it looks like it received some "lucky piece" wear or other use -- very odd with no other markings to identify it. I really like the design!

amwldcoin

Yours has Cuds suggesting many were struck!

@1630Boston said:
Looks a lot like this

ricko

I like the design... what is the size? That is one I would likely buy if found at a coin show... Cheers, RickO

1630Boston

This could be the model.--------research Charles A. Eastman, Ohiyesa (Winner), Wahpeton Dakota (Eastern Woodland Sioux), 1858-1939. Physician, autobiographer, legend re-teller, essayist, lecturer.

Here's a link to 14 year old coin talk thread
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/mystery-indian-token.10726/page-2

CaptHenway

Diameter?

AUandAG

poker token (I don't know what they actually call them but the "coin" that covers your hand).

bob

divecchia

@CaptHenway said:
Diameter?

I'd say about the size of a modern quarter after reading the old thread.

Donato

JBK

Nice token and good job.

Broadstruck

I believe this was part of a 20th century badge with pin bar (circa pre 1940's) for the "Improved Order of the Red Men" organization.

The reverse is blank as it was glued to decorative badge and if you look at the OP reverse you can see remnants of the center glue circle.

Its club members had been mostly Caucasian men who dressed as Native Americans having adopted their values of living.

I don't collect the medals, but below is a rare 19th century token.

CaptHenway

Fascinating. Thanks.

Idle speculation based upon nothing: I wonder if it might have been a decoration meant to be inlaid in a gun stock?

Kkathyl

maybe it was in a belt and the back is blank as a result. Pretty neat.

Broadstruck

@CaptHenway said:
Fascinating. Thanks.

Idle speculation based upon nothing: I wonder if it might have been a decoration meant to be inlaid in a gun stock?

The Daisy "Red Ryder" BB Guns did have a Cowboy & Indian or just a Indian bronze medal butt stock inlays.

Far higher quality and less primitive looking.

dcarr

Thanks for the replies. The diameter is about the same as a USA small dollar coin (27mm). The central portrait is higher than the rim by a fair amount.

That could possibly be a glue circle on the blank side.

The relief on the portrait diminishes significantly (but not completely) near the rim from about 4:00 to 7:00.
I was thinking the reason for that is because it was intended to put some text or a date there.

I was also wondering if it was a portrait of Ohiyesa, but I couldn't remember the name - thanks for that.
Isn't there some sort of private pattern that has "Ohiyesa" on it ?

PS:
I acquired this one via a coin shop $2 "junk box".

1630Boston

@dcarr said:

Isn't there some sort of private pattern that has "Ohiyesa" on it ?

dcarr

@1630Boston said:

@dcarr said:

Isn't there some sort of private pattern that has "Ohiyesa" on it ?

Yes, that is the obverse I was thinking of, although I think I have seen it with a different reverse than yours.

Zoins

@dcarr said:
I was also wondering if it was a portrait of Ohiyesa, but I couldn't remember the name - thanks for that.
Isn't there some sort of private pattern that has "Ohiyesa" on it ?

The Ohi-Yesa patterns were made by DuPont in 1964 for the US Mint to test compositions for moving away for 90% silver. These are cataloged by Pollock.

• http://uspatterns.com/p5389.html

Do we know who made the dies for these? I imagine it wasn't DuPont.

Here's one of the two that sold in Jules Reiver sale:

coinsarefun

I’m a little bit confused. How can a pattern of Ohi-Yesa be made in 1964
when Wanamakers Ohi-yesa merchant token uses this in early 1900’s?
So who made the die for Wanamaker’s Ohi-Yes?
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Zoins

@coinsarefun said:
I’m a little bit confused. How can a pattern of Ohi-Yesa be made in 1964
when Wanamakers Ohi-yesa merchant token uses this in early 1900’s?
So who made the die for Wanamaker’s Ohi-Yes?

An interesting thing is that the reverse die from the 1964 DuPont pattern is from the 1926 Philadelphia Sesquicentennial medal.

I wonder if a DuPoint employee happened to be a coin collector and had the dies?

Here are some photos:

• https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces89533.html

coinsarefun

@Zoins that is a very interesting thought!
Someone must know at least parts of it.

Zoins

It's really interesting that these two old dies ended up being muled in a US Mint commissioned pattern test.

I wonder if it's known who owned these dies back then.

jmski52

That design would be very suitable for a US coin.

BuffaloIronTail

Looks like something that Bela Lyon Pratt would have created.

Pete

coinsarefun

@BuffaloIronTail said:
Looks like something that Bela Lyon Pratt would have created.

Pete

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Interesting! You may have something there.

TomB

Looks like a knock-off of Pratt to me.

tokenpro

More likely one of the Philadelphia die sinkers of the time - Frank, Davison's Sons, Quint & Sons. Some dies from each of these die sinkers have been bought and sold for some time -- in Quints case, many of the dies hit the collector market.