Is it legal to counter stamp modern coins
1630Boston
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Is it legal to counter stamp modern coins and put them back into circulation.
I might do 100 and see when I get them back.
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Can you show example. Would love to see your work.
Kathy
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I'm in the pre pre design phase, perhaps just a simple "1630" punched into the coin.
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Technically it is currently against regulations to affix any sort of commercial advertising to money and intentionally place that money back into circulation with the advertising on it. Whether or not "1630" or similar would constitute some sort of advertising is another question.
When it comes to coins (currency is different) there are two prohibitions: no commercial advertising on coins that will then be put into circulation, and no alterations for fraudulent purposes.
If you are not selling anything under the name "1630" then stamp away. 100, though, is not even a drop in the bucket. If you counter stamp many 10s of thousands then you might find one on occasion in a box of coins from the bank.
P.S. - if you do counterstamp some coins, I want one!
Thanks @dcarr
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If they allowed advertising on coins I would wager it would create modern rarities for those that didn't get counterstamp! Think about all the robocalls and spam emails as an idea as to how crazy it could get.
No, you can't damage or alter and place back in circulation.
I will be searching for a 1630 coin now...What denomination?? That would be wild if I found one in change in this area...
Cheers, RickO
With so many 'Love Tokens' and counter stamped coins sold on EBay makes you wonder how much the government cared.
Eh, I stamped a nickel earlier this year.. was fun
Reference?
Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.”
This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and
fraudulently
represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is.
As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however,
there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent.
@mustangmanbob "Reference?"
It looks like you are in the right area of U.S. Section Code it might take just a little more searching.
Several years ago I was involved with a project that required defacing currency. For the project to proceed we needed to hire an attorney to research U.S. coin & currency laws. The attorney was able to find some good information, he gave me printed copies for our records. I will look to see if I can find the papers and make a digital copy to post here. I also had several web pages bookmarked but with a crash & new computer the information was lost. I may be able to find it again but it will take some looking. I will try to give reference and back up what I am saying.
First off let's touch on enforcement of the law. The Mint and/or the U.S. Government do not have the manpower or ability to enforce the laws. Much like other smaller crimes they must prove you did it and not that you were just somehow implicated.
Will @1630Boston get in trouble for stamping a few hundred coins and releasing them to circulation? No.
If I scratch an X in every quarter I come across will I ever get in trouble? No.
Both of these examples are against the law, the reason is because they were placed back in circulation.
1630Boston can stamp a few hundred coins and give them out as a "gift" and it is perfectly legal.
If you reach in your pocket and pull out a $10 and it gets caught on your car keys and tears in half, then you tape it back together and spend it, did you commit a crime? No.
If you reach in your pocket and pull out a $10 and tear it in half on purpose, then you tape it back together and spend it, did you commit a crime? Yes.
If you take a $10 out of your pocket and run it through your paper shredder did you commit a crime? No
The first example involves "intent" and it is clear this was an accident. The second example involves intentionally defacing and returning to circulation. The third example involves never being able to be circulated again.
If a laundromat spray paints all their quarters for in house use and count reasons and the laundromat owners never spends them, did they commit a crime. No
If I spray paint a bunch of quarters and spend them to try and track them through circulation, did I commit a crime? Yes.
In either case does the Government have time to even worry about it? No.
The simple explanation is when the coin/currency is in your possession it is your property. You can do anything with your property that you want to you just can't return it to circulation after you damaged it. A coin may be permanently attached to another item making it unable to vend or circulate. It can be melted or burned or any other method that would make it unable to vend or circulate. You can drill holes in current 2019 dimes and make a necklace out of them, it is a necklace now and is unable to vend or exchanged as currency. If you get tired of your necklace and take it apart and try to spend the coins you would be breaking the law. If your "intent" is to keep the coin/currency for the rest of your life you can do with it as you please.
Love Tokens would be a good example of an alteration meant to be kept a lifetime.
As you mentioned
"Fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is."
This applies to offering or returning to use said coin/currency.
My Disclaimer
I am not an attorney and I do not work for the U.S. Government.
As mentioned, my information is several years old and laws may have changed.
I am just another idiot behind a keyboard with an active imagination.
@ifthevamzarockin great info and please do post the sources and backup if you come across them. The only thing that makes me a little skeptical is that you said you hired a lawyer to research this.
They are paid to give an opinion and they will give one, but they are not infallible.
I have a couple points of disagreement with some of what you wrote, but since I am also not a lawyer I would be interested in whatever sources you were able to identify.
My own perspective on the subject is guided by careful review of some actual cases where the government did intervene:
There are a few other examples that are still a work in progress as far as verifying legality is concerned, such as the "Stamp Stampede" rubber stamped messages on banknotes - politically oriented and also includes the website address where you can buy the rubber stamps - seems to violate the Where's George rule.
Also, I would have to differ on your currency in the shredder example. Currency has its own rules - it is illegal to "deface" US currency, and to deface it you need to intentionally render it unsuitable for reissuance (circulation). Absent both of those conditions you are innocent, but with both hose conditions you are guilty. A shredder seems to me to meet (or fail) both conditions.
As for putting counterstamped coins into circulation, it was always my understanding that aside from the prohibition on advertising, this was fine as long as the alteration was not done for fraudulent purposes.
I am always happy to hear more on this subject,
Since the legality seems to be in dispute I will have to make this post anonymously on behalf of a "friend".
They have a punch that says SPEND ME and they use it on various coins that might otherwise be set aside by people who might mistakenly think they are valuable. The counterstamp has reportedly appeared on dateless buffalo nickels, cull liberty V nickels, half dollars, and Bicentennial coins.
Here is an example on a Vatican 50 euro cent coin.
@JBK If they use that stamp on U.S. coins and place them back in circulation it is against the law. Not sure how the Government would catch them or prove who did it. As far as coins from other parts of the world I have no clue.
I am working on a response to your previous question but I am at work so I have to do it on slow times.
I am not saying you are wrong, but I need the legal citation for this. It is a big missing piece of the puzzle.
While the lawyers hash this out..............next question
Best way to mechanically counter stamp coins ?
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That seems to be engraving. You want to counterstamp. ,You can get a set of individual letter punches or have a prepared punch made with the message on it. Then get a small anvil and a 3-5 pound hammer,
Well I am thinking the Free Masons would have been fined by now for all the cents they have stamped if it was really a concern.
WS
If it is illegal, maybe, then no one cares or has cared. Go on EBay and search US Coins for 'counter stamped'. The amount may surprise you; and from all decades.
>
I understand what you are saying, but respectfully disagree.
This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently
represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. The key is "fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is." If I take 1000 quarters, stamped ? on all of them, and spend them as a quarter, I have altered the coin, but NOT tried to fraudulently represent it as anything but a quarter.
Adding or removing a mint mark, etc. to make it into something more valuable (apparently unless you are a rogue mint worker): Fraudulent.
Now, if, and some have shown up here, taking a 1 cent coin and milling it down to be a dime size to use in a vending machine, that would be fraudulent, as I am trying to represent it as something else. Painting coins is fine, as long as I spend a quarter as a quarter, and not as a 50 cent piece.
Plating a quarter to pass it as a $1 coin, fraudulent. Plating billion quarters purple, and spending them as quarters, probably mental insanity, but not fraudulent.
Focus on fraudulent use. Not spending some marked, painted, plated, etc. coin. at the face value stamped on it by the mint.
@JBK
"The only thing that makes me a little skeptical is that you said you hired a lawyer to research this.
They are paid to give an opinion and they will give one, but they are not infallible."
You are 100% correct. This information was to be provided to another U.S. Government entity and they double check your findings. That doesn't mean it still could not be incorrect and the Government didn't double check our work like they were supposed to.
"Where's George" dollar bills - it was OK to stamp and circulate these bills only after the website stopped selling anything so as to avoid the situation where the website address on the bills could be construed as advertising.
You just had to bring this up.... let's come back to this one.
I was going to address this in this post but it is a whole other can of worms. Please allow me to come back to this as this post is long enough already and I don't want everyone thinking I went MIA over this discussion.
Silver Surfer quarter - a "colorization" (glorified sticker) on quarters to advertise the movie was OK until the issuer put them into circulation (illegal advertisement).
This example is about changing the appearance and also illegal advertisement. "OK until the issuer put them into circulation" I think you answered your own question if I understood it correctly. They could have been given as a gift/souvenir to anyone that bought a movie ticket and everything would have been fine.
A politician who put stickers on pennies (cents) promoting his candidacy - the feds stepped in to stop that.
Again, an alteration placed back in circulation as a form of advertisement.
The above post by @1630Boston brings another alteration to mind. Let's use a "Hobo Nickel" as an example. I can take a 2019 nickel and carve an owl on it and then list it on ebay for above face value and sell it. As long as I don't imply it was a mint error or some other crazy story to inflate value or desire of ownership. My owl nickel is now a collector piece or folk art and sold for above face value. All this is fine and not against the law. If I make an exact copy to the first one and set my owl free into commerce for daily use, I broke the law.
Keep in mind we are talking about how the law is written, it is a whole different thing when it comes to enforcing said law.
There are also may gray areas that are left up to intent & interpretation. There are also many local & U.S. laws that are still on the books but are not enforced.
Like @WaterSport said "Well I am thinking the Free Masons would have been fined by now for all the cents they have stamped if it was really a concern." It would take too much effort with no gain for the Government to enforce. The next thing is I'm sure more than one Free Mason has stamped them. If the Free Masons were stamping these at one location and one person could be identified it might be a whole different story. They need to find the one person that stamped the one coin or a bunch of coins. If I am a biker with the Hell's Angels and live in California and another member commits a murder in New York, can I be tried for murder? This may not be the best example but I think you get the idea. Just to muddy the water a little more here is another example. Lets say I am a Free Mason and I stamp a bunch of pennies with the logo, I give them to other members as a gift and never try to use/spend them, I have not broken the law. The person I gave it too now decides to spend it, did they break the law? No, they are not the one who defaced it. So in this example we have defaced coins and no one to charge with a crime.
@mustangmanbob
"If I take 1000 quarters, stamped ? on all of them, and spend them as a quarter, I have altered the coin, but NOT tried to fraudulently represent it as anything but a quarter."
It is an either one or both situation.
I appreciate the additional perspective but so far I don't see the law that forbids circulating a stamped coin provided that it is not fraudulent or advertising....
Where's George is an important precedent as the feds specifically allowed it provided there was nothing for sale on the website.
"so far I don't see the law that forbids circulating a stamped coin provided that it is not fraudulent or advertising...."
Section 331 of Title 18
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States.
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
This should read more like this but would take up too much space.
Whoever fraudulently alters any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States.
Whoever defaces any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States.
Whoever mutilates any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States.
Whoever impairs any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States.
Whoever diminishes any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States.
And so on.....
You only need to do 1 of these things to break the law.
Just because you didn't do it fraudulently doesn't mean you didn't deface it.
Just because it is not for advertising doesn't mean you didn't deface it.
I have to admit I jumped in way over my head, I will learn to keep my mouth shut!
I started looking on the web for the info I know is there, I am having no luck and remember why I paid someone else to research it. I came home and found the box of papers from the project, it is a stack of paper about 20 inches high. I have no reason to believe the info is not still in the box but it will take me a little bit of time to go through that much paperwork. Because I was stupid enough to let my fingers do the thinking on a public forum I will go through the box and try to find the info. There was some interesting information that I paid what I feel was quite a bit of money to get. I'm sure some here would like the info. The real bottom line is it won't change the way we collect, what we collect or how or why we deface or alter our coins. It is somewhat useless information because the Government can't enforce the laws and the chances of getting caught are slim. I don't know if others here have contacted the FBI or Secret Service to report counterfeit coins, they will tell you right up front that their main concern is current circulating bills. They are too busy trying to catch the guy washing $5 bills and printing $100's on them than some guy on the net selling a counterfeit collector coin. On the other hand if the guy on the net has sold a large quantity of counterfeits and made lots of money they will go after them. They only have time to work on bigger cases where larger sums of money are involved. So you deface a cent, dime or quarter....so you burn a $100 dollar bill.... it will cost the Government more money to send 2 officers to your door to talk to you about it. Every coin or bill you destroy or is taken out of circulation makes the Government money with the exception of the nickel & cent. Even if I am able to find the sections of U.S. code it will be written much like the code above and will be somewhat vague and open to interpretation. Your interpretation may be different than mine and the Judge on the case may have different interpretation than either one of us. Many times a judge needs to make a judgement call on a case by case basis. Depending on how hard you counter stamp a coin you could make it unable to be used in a vending machine or coin counter and therefore not fit for use in commerce. If 1630Boston stamps a hundred coins is it a big deal? No. Now other forum members think this is a cool idea so they stamp a few hundred coins, the next member doesn't want to be out done so they make an effort to stamp a few thousand coins, then the next member wants to be the "stamp king" and stamps a million. Next the good folks over on the other coin forum see this and don't want to be out done by the PCGS forum so all their members start stamping thousands of coins. Much like the "disagree" button here when it becomes a problem something needs to be done to fix it.
"Where's George is an important precedent"
you JBK 
Thanks for reminding me, I was hoping to forget to reply.
I still
I will be happy to tell you my stupid thoughts that I can't back up but it will take me a bit to type up that much trash.
Do I look through the box first to back up the trash I already posted or do I post more trash about "Where's George"???
There are only soo many hours in a day.
Not sure where this author got the information.
It is not illegal to deface coins BUT they can no longer be used anywhere for currency or you would be breaking the law. It is perfectly legal to drill a small hole in a nickel, paint a quarter, or bend a penny if you want. But you cannot use it to help buy that new video game or drop it in a Coinstar machine! Coins that have been defaced are only good for keepsakes or can only be sold as novelty items.
https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/coin_facts_fiction_myths/
And here @ifthevamzarockin starts the movement. Each forum member is assigned a four digit number. The member stamps that number on 1000 circulating quarters and releases them into circulation. Members looking at change or roll searching will talk about the member coins found and discuss how the coins circulate and relocate across the country. When will @ifthevamzarockin's stamped quarter show up in my town? Remember to stamp lightly so the coin still fits in machines and coin counters. The game is on!
Cool Idea 
I disagree with your assessment.
That law does not reference haven't to put it back into circulation to be illegal. By your interpretation, it would make no difference if it was a gift, etc. Also, It appears by the logic this would be a strict liability offense. You accidentally rip a dollar bill, you just broke the law.
Without doing any research, I read the plain language of the statute as needing a fraudulent intend for any of the prohibited acts. It also makes logical sense to have a culpability level attached to the crime.
I see the issue...
I believe that the entire list of what you can't do to a coin is prefaced by "fraudulently", whereas you are applying that word only to the word "alters". (If it applied only to "alters" and all the other stuff was illegal absent any fraud, then there would be no reason to even use the word "fraudulently" at all).
There is nothing in that text that mentions returning or not returning the coin to circulation, so if it reads as you state then anything done to a coin is illegal.
Elongating machines in public places usually have that text to show potential customers that it is all legal as no fraud is involved.
To back up my interpretation:
The laws regarding banknotes and coins are different (banknotes are stricter), but stamping "www.wheresgeorge.com" on a dollar bill is legal. (The Secret Service said so
).
elongated coins are legal.
melting coins (except cents and nickels currently) is legal.
I appreciate your exhaustive input. I like to hash these issues out to see what all sides are thinking. There is obviously a variety of opinions on the subject.
I am considering writing to the Secret Service on this issue in preparation for a larger counterstamping project. If I do and if I get a reply I will post it here.
@Batman23
And here ifthevamzarockin starts the movement. Each forum member is assigned a four digit number. The member stamps that number on 1000 circulating quarters and releases them into circulation. Members looking at change or roll searching will talk about the member coins found and discuss how the coins circulate and relocate across the country. When will ifthevamzarockin's stamped quarter show up in my town? Remember to stamp lightly so the coin still fits in machines and coin counters. The game is on!
Cool Idea 
Oh No! I just opened another can of worms!
@nags
"I disagree with your assessment.....Without doing any research"
All opinions and views are welcome, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
There are ways to mitigate this but I won't share my secrets just yet!
It is technically illegal for my son and i to plink cans with a pump BB gun in our suburban backyard.
But it won't matter unless someone complains. If we hit a neighbor or break their window, we will be charged, if no one notices or cares, no problem.
Similarly, if we counterstamp our initials into a few coins and spend them, it might be technically "illegal" but no one gives a hoot.
If we stamp out www.website on a million coins and bills, we are going to be talking to someone, and will likely get penalized (fined)
If it's a "hate" word or something real bad, there would be jail time, no doubt about it...
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
@JBK
"There is nothing in that text that mentions returning or not returning the coin to circulation"
I am still tying to find the information on returning to circulation.
"Elongating machines in public places usually have that text to show potential customers that it is all legal as no fraud is involved."
An elongated coin can no longer "vend" or be used for commerce. Take an elongated coin to the bank and try to deposit it or go to the Piggly Wiggly and try to spend it.
I want a 1630 stamped Kennedy half dollar!
It may be illegal and you could end up in prison. It all depends on you. LOL.
https://ebay.com/itm/Trump-Penny-/192659807522
Things are starting to get political
I'll order the .... never mind
But here is your chance. Is there a law violation? Report to secret service and see what happens.
What looks nicer
1630 or MDCXXX
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@Batman23
"
"Things are starting to get political
WoooHooo! Maybe this thread will get locked!
Definitely the Arabic numerals.
@1630Boston "What looks nicer....1630 or MDCXXX"
Will you be changing your user name to BostonMDCXXX ?
Edited to change whoever I taged @Boston1630
If you have money to burn, congratulations—but you'd better not actually set fire to a pile of cash. Burning money is illegal in the United States and is punishable by up to 10 years in prison, not to mention fines. (More fun facts: It's also illegal to tear a dollar bill and even flatten a penny under the weight of a locomotive on the railroad tracks.)
The odds of being prosecuted under the federal laws that making burning money or defacing coins, however, are fairly slim. First, coins now contain very little precious metals. Second, defacing printed currency in an act of protest is often compared to burning the American flag. That is to say, burning money may be considered protected speech under the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment.
On the one hand, the contemptuous treatment of a coin or a bill might be viewed as an expression of free speech, protected under the First Amendment. As such, the act might occupy a legal status of “expressive conduct” akin to flag burning, as set out by the U.S. Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson (491 U.S. 397 (1989)) and United States v. Eichman (496 U.S. 310 (1990)).
Both variations have their strong points.
If stamping one character at a time, 1630 will be faster. If you are ordering a prepared punch, 1630 will be cheaper as it has fewer characters. But, since you might be using it for years, go ahead and splurge on the Roman numerals if you want those.
People will wonder what "1630" means ,and if you use "MDCXXX" they will have to figure out what that means before they can wonder about the 1630.
Not right now.
Not much traffic in 1630 Boston
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I feel like living dangerously, so if you make some @1630Boston I want one
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Oh yes, that is "living dangerously" - collecting evidence of others' potential crimes.
If you decide to rob a bank please save me one of the money bags.
"If you decide to rob a bank please save me one of the money bags.
"
Me too
Well aren't we all accomplices at this point really?
I'm sure I read that on the internet somewhere, so it has to be true.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
I personally prefer the roman numerals (MDCXXX) to the arabic numerals (1630). But that is just me.
FWIW.......This coin was already damaged.
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