MLB Preoccupation with Pitch Counts

SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭
edited September 2, 2019 5:25PM in Sports Talk

When is this pitch count BS nonsense going to end?

Gerrit Cole of the Astros started today. He allowed one run (solo homer) in the first inning, and that was it. After six innings, he'd allowed only that one run on three hits, with 14 strikouts (so he had a shot at 23)! 14 K's in 6 innings; you have to think he's got a great shot for at least 20 K's! The Astros were ahead 2-1.

So, what does AJ Hinch do? He pulls Cole because he's thrown 105 pitches.

What does the bullpen do? They of course blow the lead! (How many times has that happened this season, MLB-wide?)

The Astros pulled out the win thanks to a George Springer home run in the 10th inning.

So, I ask again, When is this asinine BS going to stop?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many no-decisions do pitchers like Verlander, Scherzer and Kershaw have, because they were pulled with leads, simply because they've thrown 100 pitches, only to have the bullpen CHOKE????????????????????? (I'm looking at YOU, KENLEY JANSSEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Managers are absolutely ruining the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

Comments

  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 741 ✭✭✭✭

    So he was at 105 pitches, and he's going to throw 3 consecutive immaculate innings to hit 132 pitches, 23 Ks, and the win? A few extra foul balls, a few just off target and out of the zone, and you're looking at probably 140-150 pitches, if he indeed strikes every batter out. A few base hits, some tosses over to first...yeah he's not making it to the end of the 9th anyway.

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭

    100% agree. It seems to me that there are two alternatives. Either the managers - all of them - are morons, or the universe conspired to create hundreds of major league pitchers all at once, none of whom were able to pitch as many innings per season as hundreds of pitchers before them had done routinely. Spoiler alert - they're all morons.

    I get it, I really do, that not every pitcher can pitch 300 innings in a season and still have a 15-20 year career, as Ryan, Seaver, Lolich, Perry, Jenkins, Carton, Blyleven, Gibson, Bunning, Palmer, Blue and so on all did. But that does not mean that NONE of them can do it. It has now been 16 years since any pitcher pitched 260 innings in a season, 31 years since any pitcher pitched 275 innings in a season, and 39 years since any pitcher topped 300. How many losses are teams accepting by pulling their aces after six innings in the hope that several years from now, when their ace is pitching for some other team, his arm won't be sore? And how many more losses are they accepting because they have loaded their roster with 12 pitchers, at least two of whom ought to be in the minors, instead of 10, and sacrificing two bats/gloves that could have been used effectively in a platoon system?

    {the answer to both questions is "lots"}

    dallasactuary

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  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 19,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some pitcher's can pitch the extra pitches like the list above and some can't. Seems like the challenge is for someone to be able to figure out which one's can't and which one's can. That's what managers and pitching coaches are paid good money for.


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  • DarinDarin Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:
    100% agree. It seems to me that there are two alternatives. Either the managers - all of them - are morons, or the universe conspired to create hundreds of major league pitchers all at once, none of whom were able to pitch as many innings per season as hundreds of pitchers before them had done routinely. Spoiler alert - they're all morons.

    I get it, I really do, that not every pitcher can pitch 300 innings in a season and still have a 15-20 year career, as Ryan, Seaver, Lolich, Perry, Jenkins, Carton, Blyleven, Gibson, Bunning, Palmer, Blue and so on all did. But that does not mean that NONE of them can do it. It has now been 16 years since any pitcher pitched 260 innings in a season, 31 years since any pitcher pitched 275 innings in a season, and 39 years since any pitcher topped 300. How many losses are teams accepting by pulling their aces after six innings in the hope that several years from now, when their ace is pitching for some other team, his arm won't be sore? And how many more losses are they accepting because they have loaded their roster with 12 pitchers, at least two of whom ought to be in the minors, instead of 10, and sacrificing two bats/gloves that could have been used effectively in a platoon system?

    {the answer to both questions is "lots"}

    Where have you gone, Jack Morris. He could really eat up the innings. Don't make them like that anymore.

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 27,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you get to about 100 pitches, most pitchers are ready to come out of the game. Some of them might be able to be effective for more of the game. Others not. Overall the question is how will it affect the pitcher in the mid and long term. I came remember who pushed themselves to a high pitch count, were effective then, but later shortened their season or their careers.

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  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 7,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    just to play devils advocate you mention strike outs , those come cheap now compared to even 20 years ago . Lets drop the stat for all pitchers .

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 5,720 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pitch counts are here to stay. I would bet that the 5 inning start will become the norm for any team with a good bullpen.

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  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:
    Some pitcher's can pitch the extra pitches like the list above and some can't. Seems like the challenge is for someone to be able to figure out which one's can't and which one's can. That's what managers and pitching coaches are paid good money for.

    And for all that good money, paid to all those hundreds of managers and pitching coaches for going on 40 years, the conclusion reached by every single one of them is that there has not been a single pitcher who can pitch 300 innings in even one season.

    My question is, if you're going to get the same conclusion from every manager and every coach every year, why exactly are they getting paid good money?

    @BillJones said:
    When you get to about 100 pitches, most pitchers are ready to come out of the game. Some of them might be able to be effective for more of the game. Others not. Overall the question is how will it affect the pitcher in the mid and long term. I came remember who pushed themselves to a high pitch count, were effective then, but later shortened their season or their careers.

    Yes, SOME of them did shorten their careers. But the ones who didn't - Ryan, Seaver, Blyleven, not to mention Feller, Roberts, Grove, Johnson, etc., - pitched twice as many innings in their careers as nearly any modern pitcher. And their teams got twice as many innings out of HOF pitchers as modern teams do, while the modern teams are giving those innings instead to the 11th and 12th best pitchers on their rosters, when they'd only need 10 pitchers if they coached and managed instead of blindly doing what every other coach and manager is doing.

    dallasactuary

    Official defender of Ron Santo
    Official defender of Bert Blyleven
    Official defender of Bill Mazeroski
    Jim Rice sucks
    Jack Morris sucks and blows simultaneously.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Baseball and the fan base have always been numbers/stat obsessed oriented. I wouldn't be surprised if you could gamble on the o/u of a pitchers pitch count. Can't leave out Warren Spahn. He was a workhorse too.

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 22,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Baseball and the fan base have always been numbers/stat obsessed oriented. I wouldn't be surprised if you could gamble on the o/u of a pitchers pitch count. Can't leave out Warren Spahn. He was a workhorse too.

    <<< I wouldn't be surprised if you could gamble on the o/u of a pitchers pitch count. >>>

    I'm not up to speed on what bookies around the world do, but I wouldn't be surprised if they offered that, particularly in big games such as the World Series. As sports gambling grows in the United States with more and more states legalizing it, i'll be surprised if they don't offer a prop bet such as that.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I miss the days when it seemed like top one or two starters routinely pitched into late innings.

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