Stop selling your gold and silver bullion below spot !!
bidask
Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just my opinion
I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
5
Comments
Today's below spot is tomorrows spot,
Just never below melt.
I bought maybe a 10 - 15 pound fire blacked blob. It was a sterling silver set that had been in a box, probably wooden, in the fire. There was some steel (knife blades, etc.) mixed in, but you could still see enough of what was left to recognize the pattern.
It has been too long to remember the exact numbers, but lets assume silver at 15 an ounce, and 120 ounces of silver along with 3 pounds of melted in crud. Spot says 120 x 15 or $1800 for this fire blacked crud of a mess.
Did I sell below spot? Yes
Did I sell below Melt? Yes
Was I happy with what I got? Absolutely, as I had almost nothing in it.
It costs money to melt. It costs risk to buy, wait in line to melt, melt and assay, and then cast. I respect these people have money invested in equipment, pay their workers, have to pay the dentist, like to eat sometimes, and maybe take their children to Disney World someday, so, yes, I expect to leave something on the table for them.
explain the difference.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Try to sell it for $1 over spot and it is crickets on the BST. If selling at or below spot here yields more than going to the local shop (which it does) then why not? "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered".
You do realize that coin shops only buy below spot? You can never sell except below spot, unless you are selling plastic and the bean.
Uptrend
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
What I find interesting, and off putting, is when someone has bullion priced items on the bst….and they are stagnant at listed price. Spot price goes up, and the same people rush to raise their prices as well.
One day, they list and would seemingly be happy with $x
The next, spot goes up and they are asking for $x+(increase in spot)…...so, item stagnates again.
If something wasn't moving at $x, and you would take $x, why not unload it at $x and let someone think they got a good deal when spot increases?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
yap ...... just like the crude swing.... all is first to up at the pump and last to lower. Figure
and they tell me there is no such fixing?
What's next? Only list coins for sale at full Coinfacts prices? Yeah, that will keep the market propped up.....
Sorry, but if dealers are paying well below spot (assuming they are even buying), and someone wants to move something, I think they may price it anyway they wish. If "a little under spot" gets a bite, why not?
I agree......It's important to leave a little something on the table. I need that dealer or customer
to come back to do another deal. I'd like to see them again.....and again.....
a dealer that buys a bit below spot offers the seller an immediate cash payment, no postage fees, no risk of loss mail, no insurance fees and no transaction fees. Seems to be a fair trade off.
Here’s what I think
BST
The BST is a worthless unless your pricing stuff at a deal or extremely fair.
And frankly lots (not all ) of the big firms are backing up the prices a little below spot and even more so as the price goes higher and higher. Cost of shipping is a factor as well.
I might add, last week I put a group of 90% halves on bst at 11x (melt at the time was 11.7) No intrest, except for a few folks who offered me pawn shop OTC prices. One of them currently has some off brand mediocre morgans on the bst with pcgs prices. You don't know how bad I wanted to return the favor, but didn't.
Stop selling your gold and silver bullion below spot!!
Just my opinion
and your opinion is worthless --- unless --- you step up and become a market maker. I suggest that you start to pay spot or spot+ for Gold Bullion and I can guarantee you 100% that you will be busier than a one-legged man at an ass-kickin' contest!!
this is how the Bullion market goes, but you know that. perhaps an alternate thread title or thread idea might be "STOP SELLING GOLD EAGLES AT SPOT+ $25."
everything balances out, when the market to buy is lower then the market to sell is lower. step up, dude, become a Market Maker and start paying spot+ for Gold.
Start buying silver and gold. You're missing the boat, with selling. Acquire and accumulate. But don't take my advice... just consider it.
LADY MACBETH --
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!--One: two: why,
then, 'tis time to do't.--Hell is murky!--Fie, my
lord, fie! a soldier, and afeard? What need we
fear who knows it, when none can call our power to
account?--Yet who would have thought the old man
to have had so much blood in him."
[Shakespeare. Macbeth. Act 5, Scene 1, Dunsinane. Ante-room in the castle.]
I’ll stop selling below spot if @bidask is going to pay me more then spot.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
No Ebay nightmares and you generally net more.
I tried to sell two 1988-W Seoul $5 commems on the BST at $60 under spot and no takers (-$15 per coin). I had to drive 20 minutes up to SLC to sell them.
What a wonderful investment gold is. It rises, but you still lose when you sell.
Great advice. This is exactly 100% the opposite you find with 100% of Ebay sales/sellers. Not only is there no meat on the bone, but the marrow has been sucked out and you are left with the seller's dental bills as the bonus.
kind of have to do this on eBay because eBay and PayPal take 10%... if you don’t, you are getting way too little.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
OP doesn't know what "Spot" price represents.
Spot price represents an nearby exchange-based contract for a large amount of silver or gold, and the "good delivery" form of the precious metal is very specific and high grade too.
"Spot" is a benchmark and reference point, but most small sellers couldn't play that game in real life.
I am certain other forum participants could explain this better than me.
AU is over $1500/oz and Ag is at $17... probably should have not second guessed my decision to buy at the last Baltimore show when Double Eagles were at spot ($1275) +$50...
:-/
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Spot for PM's is like a "Price Guide" for coins, it gives a reasonable start for buyers and sellers to begin a negotiation. some foolishly believe it is a hard and fast line, but it isn't, it is manipulated by forces far, far beyond the Hobby's control. most of us, like bidask, are followers and not leaders. if the Internet were to go down for any extended period of time and we had no "guide" there would be chaos. I know it's a little bit OT, but that is the sort of thing that awaits us in the future, the way an enemy will try to defeat us. our electric grid and internet security are really, really vulnerable.
without a constantly updated Spot price many in the Hobby are lost.
No, your explanation is quite clear.
BTW -- "Good delivery" is 0.995 or better (but mostly 0.999 now), approx 400 T oz (12.4 kg) from a refiner on the good delivery list. (See London Bullion Market Association rules, attached.)
To sum up what most people seem to be saying here, the physical market and the "Spot" market are really two different markets.
One is based on 100 ozt contract, where physical metal rarely changes hands. The other is based on a meeting of the minds between a willing seller and a willing buyer of a specific product.
I find it interesting when someone tells someone else what they should buy and or sell their items for. The way the free markets work, if you think someone is under pricing their bullion well then by all means buy it! If you are not willing to buy it at that price, than how can you say it is under priced?
It reminds me when I used to play poker and I would hear someone complain about some other player not playing "right." I would say, "well then shut-up and take their chips!" If they cannot do that the majority of the time, then perhaps they are the ones not playing correctly.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
I understand. the end result is the same to the buyer.
When your in at much less of the present price, why worry?
Spot as commonly used here is the price per ounce; melt is the number of ounces/amount of gold or silver in the bar or coin.
Today silver is at $17.16 so that makes melt value or silver content of a Morgan dollar $13.27.
When you buy chit grade gold like that then what do you expect? Gold Buffalos or AGEs are the way to go.
I don’t think cost should be relevant, when trying to sell for a fair price. Please note that I said “fair price”, not “above market price”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They are the same thing. If your Morgan sold for spot it would sell for $13.27.
Basically I guess you are saying anything not an exact ounce referred to as melt. It's all spot to me, just some of it involves a calculation.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Agreed. I do, however, like being on the buying side when that philosophy is exercised.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Yep always best to buy and stack what's liquid. Eagles, Maples and a few Krugs, throw in some US pre 33 for good measure. Never a problem to unload at spot or better.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
The melt value of a Morgan based on spot price of $17.16 per ounce is $13.27. Melt is the amount of silver in question or in the deal. A 5 ounce bar would have a melt value of $85.80. Obviously it's determined from spot times weight.
Been preached here numerous times. Sell to a dealer then usually expect spot or less. Sell to the dealer's customer you should expect to get more. Oddball gold aint where it's at.
Except, of course, in the case of the gold spouses.
A suggestion:
For anybody selling the common gold spouses on the BST, please don’t include photos as it tends to send me into “BST avoidance.”
Lemme tell you folks something.
The higher "spot" rises, the less likely physical metal will retain its relation to ."spot."
What determines the PHYSICAL prices is demand and on which side it is.
Higher "spot" brings out sellers.
Lots of sellers will drop prices on bullion COINS. There's simply no market for the wholesalers to sell to. Bullion begins going to refiners to be sold to commercial USERS of the metal.
Don't think your ...coins... or bars, rounds, etc. can be sold on the Comex.
They require "good delivery" bars.
http://www.buysilverbars.org/guide/comex-good-delivery/
That's ONE THOUSAND OUNCE ...bars.. for silver.
Back in (whenever it was...I forget) the days when metal was "backed up" .... ONLY... 1,000 oz bars were salable at "spot."
And... back in 1979-80 (the big one) I had REAL trouble finding buyers late in the day for even 100 oz bars.
They had severe discounts as the public was buying one ounce product.
Sooooooooooooo.... "spot" is a yardstick only.
I'd like someone to sell me a Jackie Kennedy at spot.
Agree
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
you might want to back off the 100%
It's really simple. It's not "spot" that matters. It's the bid/ask spread. Dealers buy at maybe $25 back of spot and sell at $25-$50 over spot. That's a whipping $50-$75 per ounce gross profit. Often less. Up until this recent runup, it was about a $40 spread. So, if you insist on selling at $25 over spot, all it means is that you are going to pay $100 over spot if you are buying.
I'd also point out - not that it needs saying - I would never pay YOU spot on BST because I can get it from a legitimate, well-known bullion dealer for $25 over spot with much less risk and trouble than dealing with a stranger on the internet And if retail customers won't pay you spot on the BST, who do you think is going to?
Just be patient as if the spot price continues to rise you will get that Jackie at spot, along with a lot of other stuff that will melt.
She is one of the few exceptions to a grossly unattractive and largely current spot pricing only series.
Nah, I stick by it 100%
I think you are leaving money on the table selling gold below spot in a rising market .
2011 run in gold saw many sales above spot .
I know because I sold that way.😊
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The market will continue to rise... until it stops. And unfortunately, you can’t know ahead of time when it will turn. So selling at or just below spot could turn out to be a good deal. And I say that, despite the fact that I think we’re (still) in a rising market.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I suspect that part of the problem now and the spot- conundrum is that everyone is selling like crazy and buyers are short of cash.
It just might be a little different this time. We are in for a bumpy ride.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.