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MS 65 was once considered the "Gem" grade.
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
In Morgan Dollars, it seems like MS67 is the new threshold.
Maybe I have just looked at too many coins this week.
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65 is now the tick count.
Sixty five ticks???? That would be an infestation.....
Sorry...could not resist... 
Cheers, RickO
Yes it was. I think sometimes sellers always trying wring more money out of something that not really advancing. I totally hate the idea of a 100 point system and the infrastructure market collapse nightmare it would cause. I will not pay the money to support it and hope I have blown everything out before it happens.
I can see the 100 Pt system come to play in the not too distant future IF it is worldwide (total integration of world and US) when the current TPG and sticker pricing system / inventory class kaput / bankrupt and a self grading / pricing AI or smart Holder comes out you can buy at Walmart for like 2 bucks or say bag of five for $6.
65 is the old 63, and 67 is the old 65. gradeflation.
Sounds like you guys are looking at some nasty 65’s😂
Just looked up the 1881-S in 67. 6600 coins graded by the two top TPG's.
Here we go again...Choice Unc was MS-65 at one time. Then, Choice Unc became MS-63 and MS-65 was "Gem." Now I'm reading someone or some organization is changing this. Is it any wonder there is confusion.
Who do you think profits from confusion? One group begins with a "D." Another group begins with the
letter __" "___. Fill in the blank.
65 is still Gem. 67 is Superb Gem. Any more questions?
65 is still the gem cutoff in my mind
Collector, occasional seller
Theoretically yes; in practice, it’s getting dicey lately...
Are you sure?
Yes.....I'm sure.
Looks like you are correct? I need a grading class! So who came up with "Superb" first? An auction company or the ANA?
From Heritage:
Uncirculated (MS-60, 61, 62): An uncirculated coin with noticeable deficiencies, generallyeither an overabundance of bagmarks, a poor strike, or poor luster. Although most price guides will give a pricefor coins in MS-60 condition, in many cases this is a very unusual grade, with typical uncirculated pieces oftengrading somewhere in the MS-62 to MS-64 range depending on the series.
•Select Uncirculated (MS-63): An uncirculated coin with fewer deficiencies than coins in loweruncirculated grades. In general, this will be an uncirculated coin with relatively ordinary eye appeal. SelectUncirculated is sometimes used to refer to a coin grading MS-62.
•Choice Uncirculated (MS-64): An uncirculated coin with moderate distracting marks ordeficiencies. These coins generally have average to above average eye appeal. Choice Uncirculated is sometimesused to refer to a coin grading MS-63.
•Gem Uncirculated (MS-65, 66): An uncirculated coin with only minor distracting marks orimperfections. At this point, mint luster is expected to be full, although toning is quite acceptable.
•Superb Gem Uncirculated (MS-67, 68, 69): An uncirculated coin with only the slightestdistracting marks or imperfections. Toning is still quite acceptable and in these grades will usually bepleasing. Many circulating coins even of relatively recent dates are quite rare in such lofty grades, althoughmodern bullion coins and commemoratives are often found in grades as high as MS-69.
•Perfect Uncirculated (MS-70): An utterly flawless coin.
FROM ANA:
Also Known As: Mint State 67, MS67, Choice Gem Uncirculated,Superb Gem
Uncirculated, Superb Gem Brilliant Uncirculated, CH GEM BU, CH GEM UNC, Superb GEM BU
Also Known As: Mint State 68, MS68, Choice Gem Uncirculated, Superb Gem Uncirculated, Superb Gem Brilliant Uncirculated, CH GEM BU, CH GEM UNC, Superb GEM BU
Pretty common coin.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
A bit too common in that grade. TheNGC/Stacks release offered a ton of Morgans in 67. Prices plunged.
MS65 is still gem bu in my book, it has nothing to do with how many coins have been graded.
Fleur de coin, mes amies.
Pink is a New Black
It depends on what and which coin
Not really. A total of 6,600 out of 12,760,000 minted coins comes out to 0.05%. That sounds about right/as expected.
"65" was the point at which there were no more hairlines on proof coins.
BU - Choice BU was MS 63-65. Gem BU was MS 66-67. We were not so anal, back in the old days.
Nowadays I need 3 experts and another expert outside of there, for an incorrect opinion and view. Or an agreement .... and either way they're all just opinions.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
One has to look to the MS68 coins to see real gems. Especially in the CC dollars.
Apparently referred to "Superb Gems?"
Way back when it was:
Unc, Choice Unc and Gem Unc.
That was all folks
BHNC #203
maybe I'm in the minority, but when I grade a coin I no longer use worded descriptions, it is strictly numeric such as the aforementioned MS65. you guys need to get in step with someone, it doesn't matter who, but I would suggest it isn't a member here unless it's to follow the lead outlined in my post.
no more words to describe the grade, they are confusing, reread this thread till you understand.
Still have 65 coins in holders from 1990's. Looks like I need to make a lot of submissions.
100% Positive BST transactions
MS65 is exactly mid point between MS60 and MS70. So MS65 could be a bit ticky looking at times.
I bought most of the coins in my teaching set (Grading) in the 1980's - 1990's. I have prefect PROOF of the loose modern grading standards due to "gradeflation" as EVERY COIN has gone up in grade one to two grades (three grades for the Proof Franklin's) since then. I need to cover the NGC & PCGS labels in order to still use the coins in class.
With patience, nice 65’s can be found at decent prices...
My YouTube Channel
With the services tightening up; I've found some Primo coins in NEWER holders that haven't been grade-flated....quite the opposite, actually.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Actually, that's a bit disturbing.
Consistency? Suuuuuurrrrreeeee......
Only one direction for this to go....down. That is the only way the holdering game stays in business.
That’s why I search for gem 45’s.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
65 is still Gem. 67 is Superb Gem.
This is correct.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
The services may loosen and the services may tighten but my standards always stay the same.....to me, a gem will always be a 65.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Back in the day when you were always looking to upgrade your collection you had to be able to look at the coin in-hand and compare it to what you already had. Most of the time you would have a grading set of that particular series to keep your set the best you could ever hope to achieve.
TPG was supposed to be the answer for that. Getting a Morgan in 67 DMPL was a goal everyone wanted.
Before 2007 our host would not give a Silver Eagle a 70 grade because of the long term storage problems. It was rare that any coin would grade 70, if it did you had the rare exception. You would hope to get at least a 69 grade, and afraid of the 68 grade, for Morgan's most would be afraid of a 61 or 62, unless it was super rare, then you were happy that it would be a genuine coin
In 2007 everything changed when our host announced they would give a Silver Eagle a 70 grade, they had to, everyone was sending there Eagles and many other modern issues to their competition, in one fell swoop the value on the 70 graded coins in competition's holders dropped across the board.
The Mint also had a lot to do with the improvement of the products they were selling, now a grade of 69 on an Eagle and you may as well break it out and sell it as a raw coin and hope you break even on it.
If they grading goes to a 100 pont system all the 70 graded coins would be worthless, the system as it is will dd fine for my lifetime.
I don't see our host over grading at all, the competition's grades will always be suspect for over grading on moderns but pretty fair on the old stuff
I can only hope everyone would give an oldtimer here a break and not slam me to bad, I've waited a long time to express my view on this and the topic of grading finally came up.
Have a great day...
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
I remember when a MS 65 was a myth. The coin shops I visited didn't even carry any silver dollar in such grade.
Your right about that, I can remember also that you would see dual grading, one for Obverse and one for Reverse. Often the coins value would drop to the lowest of the two grades if you were selling, and go up to the highest grade if you were buying.
How many remember getting dual grades on coins?
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
My 64 Seated dollar jumped to 66 just from cracking its rattler.
What R you trying to say?
This is the real reason prices have dropped. Just like my half gallon of orange juice that only has 53 ounces in it.
Then you'll remember when 65 was the highest grade. When in reality, most of the new Proofs each year were actually much higher.
Look at it this way, they cut the calories by 15%
<<< Just looked up the 1881-S in 67. 6600 coins graded by the two top TPG's. >>>
That figure also accounts for a very large number of resubmissions and all the coins now graded 67 that were once in 65 and 66 holders. In addition, go through a few stacks of all of these so-called superb gem MS67 graded dollars the services (especially NGC) have deemed to be MS67 and maybe 25% of them are actually true MS67 coins on a good day.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
OK, probably deserves a separate thread, but where does BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) fit in today's grading world?
I’d think in the 60-62 range, as below 60 wouldn’t be unc. and many people use the term “choice uncirculated” for MS63 coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.