One could also argue that the ease of buying (and selling) GLD has created more demand than otherwise might be.
According to Alasdair Macleod, physical gold ETFs, as a proxy for direct portfolio investment, amount to only 0.05% of the estimated $250 trillion of global investment values. If this is correct, ETFs and their associated "demand" are a drop in the bucket.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Lol, who the heck is Alastair whoever? Is that the guy who played Scrooge in the original?
My, my talk about coincidence of my post, what he said has nothing to do with the specific gold market, I’m on an episode of the Twilight Zone?... I think so, maybe just when I’m in this forum... what?...
Alasdair Macleod
Alasdair has been a celebrated stockbroker and Member of the London Stock Exchange for over four decades. His experience encompasses equity and bond markets, fund management, corporate finance and investment strategy
Some on this board, including derryb, have great disdain of stockbrokers. So im not sure why derry would cite him.
Perhaps it would be a useful exercise to debate what the price of physical gold would be if the $37 billion customer (GLD etf) did not exist.
Which created artificial demand, which created an artificial price, which if observed and acted upon, would have rewarded any physical holder the opportunity to take advantage of a real price to sell to those who actually thought that that artificial price was real and would have actually paid it based upon their uninformed belief that the price was real...
i guess you're right. Absolutely no risk with bullion.
Let's think about it. Which would you trust more, a lump of metal being held in your hot little hand - or a group of intermediaries who allegedly own and are holding or alleged to be holding allocated or unallocated lumps of metal in at least one foreign shell corporation allegedly on your behalf?
Think real hard, I know you can figure it out.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said: i guess you're right. Absolutely no risk with bullion.
Let's think about it. Which would you trust more, a lump of metal being held in your hot little hand - or a group of intermediaries who allegedly own and are holding or alleged to be holding allocated or unallocated lumps of metal in at least one foreign shell corporation allegedly on your behalf?
Think real hard, I know you can figure it out.
The point is that a prospectus for gold would be quite thick and create consternation for those who wished to invest in it.
You do know that some folk have gone out to a nice dinner with friends only to return home to find their gold is gone. Disappeared faster than Enron. It has happened, and since it is a risk, the lawyers would write it up in such a way to scare you, just are you are scared of buying an ETF.
The example I used is very true, yet simple. There are many more risks, some of which you don't even perceive to be that important or may be highly unlikely. But they would all be disclosed. That would be your prospectus. And it would not be funny.
Yes I agree, But my plan was to take physical delivery from the Physical Bullion Trusts. They are a little different than normal PM ETF's. My plan was to lock in the prices of the physical metals at the specific point in time that I bought and then take delivery. Who knows If im right i guess time will tell.
@MsMorrisine said:
You can do that but you know that the palladium is stored in London and Zurich
I did NOT want anything stored in Europe. The Bullion Trust I bought stores its PM's in Canada. As we witnessed in the 2008 financial crises, even the world’s largest financial institutions are not immune from insolvency and government bail outs. For these reasons, the Trusts store their precious metals in custody with the Royal Canadian Mint, a Federal Crown Corporation of the Government of Canada. There is no levered financial institution between the unitholders and the Trusts' physical bullion and no risk of financial loss in the event of a bankruptcy or nationalization of the financial institution.
Comments
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
According to Alasdair Macleod, physical gold ETFs, as a proxy for direct portfolio investment, amount to only 0.05% of the estimated $250 trillion of global investment values. If this is correct, ETFs and their associated "demand" are a drop in the bucket.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Lol, who the heck is Alastair whoever? Is that the guy who played Scrooge in the original?
My, my talk about coincidence of my post, what he said has nothing to do with the specific gold market, I’m on an episode of the Twilight Zone?... I think so, maybe just when I’m in this forum... what?...
From the interweb..
Alasdair Macleod
Alasdair has been a celebrated stockbroker and Member of the London Stock Exchange for over four decades. His experience encompasses equity and bond markets, fund management, corporate finance and investment strategy
Some on this board, including derryb, have great disdain of stockbrokers. So im not sure why derry would cite him.
Perhaps it would be a useful exercise to debate what the price of physical gold would be if the $37 billion customer (GLD etf) did not exist.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Which created artificial demand, which created an artificial price, which if observed and acted upon, would have rewarded any physical holder the opportunity to take advantage of a real price to sell to those who actually thought that that artificial price was real and would have actually paid it based upon their uninformed belief that the price was real...
i guess you're right. Absolutely no risk with bullion.
Let's think about it. Which would you trust more, a lump of metal being held in your hot little hand - or a group of intermediaries who allegedly own and are holding or alleged to be holding allocated or unallocated lumps of metal in at least one foreign shell corporation allegedly on your behalf?
Think real hard, I know you can figure it out.
I knew it would happen.
The point is that a prospectus for gold would be quite thick and create consternation for those who wished to invest in it.
You do know that some folk have gone out to a nice dinner with friends only to return home to find their gold is gone. Disappeared faster than Enron. It has happened, and since it is a risk, the lawyers would write it up in such a way to scare you, just are you are scared of buying an ETF.
The example I used is very true, yet simple. There are many more risks, some of which you don't even perceive to be that important or may be highly unlikely. But they would all be disclosed. That would be your prospectus. And it would not be funny.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
That a boy! Keep thinking, I know you can do it.
Your first wrong turn would be to involve lawyers, lol.
You will never avoid all the risks that exist in this world.
Gold = no need for a prospectus, because, well - because it's real.
Gold ETF = it's real too. Real paper.
Choose accordingly.
I knew it would happen.
Yup.
Im hoping you read what you wrote.
Keep thinking.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
A pretty profound statement...
". . .pleaded guilty and admitted manipulating precious metals futures markets for nine years"
“placed thousands of orders to manipulate the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures contracts,”
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
In addition to buying Physical metals I recently bought some of these ETF's that hold Physical totally allocated bullion.
http://www.sprott.com/investment-strategies/physical-bullion-trusts/
MIKE B.
https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/7983-19
Corey D. Flaum - https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/4005626
John Edmonds - http://www.gata.org/files/JPMorganChaseClassActionStay.pdf -
???? https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/5926605 - ???? - unsure
you realize these are tons of little manipulations. also, the last CFTC I posted said the person spoofed on both buy and sell orders.
Many say if you can't hold it then you don't own it.
Yes I agree, But my plan was to take physical delivery from the Physical Bullion Trusts. They are a little different than normal PM ETF's. My plan was to lock in the prices of the physical metals at the specific point in time that I bought and then take delivery. Who knows If im right i guess time will tell.
MIKE B.
Which trust do you want to redeem for bullion?
the one i want to redeem for bullion is the Physical Platinum and Palladium Trust . In my opinion Platinum is very undervalued.
MIKE B.
You can do that but you know that the palladium is stored in London and Zurich
What's the minimum delivery and the cost? I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy the platinum outright in the first place.
I knew it would happen.
Sometimes the fees are lower than the physical spread
I did NOT want anything stored in Europe. The Bullion Trust I bought stores its PM's in Canada. As we witnessed in the 2008 financial crises, even the world’s largest financial institutions are not immune from insolvency and government bail outs. For these reasons, the Trusts store their precious metals in custody with the Royal Canadian Mint, a Federal Crown Corporation of the Government of Canada. There is no levered financial institution between the unitholders and the Trusts' physical bullion and no risk of financial loss in the event of a bankruptcy or nationalization of the financial institution.
MIKE B.
seems like a workable solution if you can handle it being in the Canadian mint's hands.
it will be in your hands once you take delivery. I hope you didn't buy a tonne.
Exactly.