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Is this a Broadstruck Mercury Dime.
Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thanks in advance for your opinion.
Ken
1
Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thanks in advance for your opinion.
Ken
Comments
I would say yes from the pictures.
Looks like it has a reeded edge. Unless it has a partially reeded edge (only part way down into the collar) it cannot be a broadstrike. Perhaps struck on a type one blank?
Yes - there are no design elements
missing - a nice example of a broadstruck
out of the collar error.
Nice early date, too.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
++++1
@FredWienberg
reeds
.
Interesting... I would like to see the edge pictures...looks partially reeded.... but difficult to say....Cheers, RickO
It does have reeding. The reeding is flat and shallow compared to the sharp reeding on a regular merc.
Type 1 planchet or something else?
Ken
Doesn't look at all like any Merc.
I've seen Broadstruck on a Type 1 blank.
OP - can you shoot an edge view of it ?
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I think the weakly struck rim is fooling the eye, I doubt very much if that coin is any larger in diameter than a normal dime.
Can you weigh it? It looks like the planchet is thin toward the top of the obverse, the lack of striking pressure could also cause the reeding to be weak.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
With Bands like that? I've seen a couple of Broadstruck 45 P's with Full Bands the owners were peod they couldn't get a FB designation.
Why not ask member Broadstruck if it is his....?
What is the diameter? If it is normal diameter then it is not "broadstruck."
I'm glad this discussion has been posted because recently I've learned there is a VERY BIG PROBLEM with error terminology between collectors and TPGS. Hopefully, with Fred here we can make some headway.
First, I'm not an error expert. I was spoiled as a rookie authenticator and did not bother to learn/ask questions directly to the guys making the coins at the Mints I visited. We took unusual errors to the Mint Lab where the technicians explained how they were produced and what they were called. Back then, if an error coin could not be made WITHOUT THE HELP OF MAN it was not certified as authentic. Things are completely different today - no need to discuss the obvious examples that have come on to the commercial market for several decades.
Since then, I've learned enough to be both dangerous AND argue with error experts when what they tell me does not make sense.
Things are so bad that I approached Mark Lighterman (CONECA) and Sam from the ANA at the FUN Show for the need to standardize things. For example: When a struck coin is not centered on the planchet YET its design is not affected (however the raised rim is completely missing) the coin is NOT CONSIDERED to be off-center!!! Stupid, stupid, stupid, and may the folks who came up to that nonsense rot in...
Now for the OP's coin. Same thing going on here. Take a coin that expands to oversize (broadstruck) and it is not considered to be broadstruck IF ANY OF THE REEDS ARE SHOWING. Now I've been told it is called a partial collar!!!
I've also been told that the error experts at the TPGS do things their way and are resisting any change or discussion.
IMHO, there is a big need to get a bunch of error experts together and standardize things as there are cases on both sides that don't make sense.
I see what looks like a hint of edge reeding on the OP's coin and it looks to be very close to a normal size. Both posters I quote are very knowledgeable. Let's see the edge and then continue a discussion.
Struck once in collar, struck again out of collar?
For me, historically, if a coin is broadstruck, but NO design elements are missing,
it can't be an off center strike. If the coin 'looks' off center due to a decent amount
of blank area on the struck planchet, then it's an Uncentered Broadstrike ( a newer
term, maybe 20-25 years old, I'm guessing)
This Merc looks like a normal broadstrike to me, and that's why I asked for an
edge photo. I saw the potential reeding on the top of the edges of the coin,
but it certainly didn't look like a partial collar strike to me, based on the photos.
Lets see an edge photo (two diff. axis points, if possible), and we can go from there,
at least on the Merc.
I guess the other way to put it is that if a blank or planchet doesn't fit into the collar
fully, it can be struck as a partial collar or a broad strike, (depending on the reeding
on the edge), but the planchet wasn't really 'off center' in these cases - it's just above
the collar (or halfway, in the case of a' railroad rim' partial collar.
If the blank or planchet was mis-fed enough that the dies do not impart any design
from them, it's broadstruck. If design is missing, then the planchet was struck as an
off center.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Sorry to take so long with the pictures of the reeding. Huckleberry picking called for the first time this year. Hope you can tell something from the pictures.
Ken
Yeah, it was struck in a collar, so it is not broadstruck.
I stick with my original explanation, struck on a type one blank.
Looks like full reeding…….whatever that means.
I didn't expect to see full reeding -
Tom, most Type 1 blanks are the
cause of partial collar strikes.
This blank/planchet fit fully into the collar,
which is unusual, I've found, for a T. 1 blank.
Strange, imo
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Good call on the T1 planchet imo.
Insider, a broadstrike happens out of collar. It has to be that way to allow the coin to expand. The reeds are put on the coin by the collar. So if any reeds....
And very full reeding, such as you might get from a Type One blank that was not rounded off by the upsetting mill.
As I recall reading somewhere decades ago, cent collars were installed new at 0.747 inch (vs. the standard of 0.750 inch) and retired when they had eroded out to 0.753 inch. Dime collars must have had some erosion also. At the risk of playing "What If?" to justify my theory, what if a Type One blank was centered correctly over a "relaxed fit" worn collar? Couldn't the hammer die drive it home?
The Mints make billions of coins. Sooner or later lots of unlikely coincidences happen.
I agree with that - I've seen plenty of 'strange' coincidences.
That would make sense - a used, slightly wider gap in the collar.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Would the used collar account for the fact that the reeding is shallow and not nearly as defined at the top. Top of reeding is flat and not pointed.
Thanks much for all of the explanations. I certainly learned a few things from them.
Ken
Yes. The inner points of the reeds define the size of the opening that the planchet (or blank) has to fit into. As those points wear down and the reeds become shallower, the opening inside them becomes larger.
US Mint dime specifications (in inches):
Diameter of punched blank 0.704
Diameter of milled blank 0.692
Diameter of finished coin 0.705
Size collar is bored 0.692
Size collar drifted at top 0.705
Approx. pressure to coin 35-45 tons
Approx. tons per square inch 91 tons