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Getting an expert opinion on Ebay listings from photo examination!
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Posts: 431 ✭✭✭✭
New service from ATS
Do you think this adds or detracts the value of Third Party Grading?
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Posts: 431 ✭✭✭✭
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Posts: 431 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
Dangerous for NGC. I saw nothing on what if they are wrong. If they tell you that the coin is authentic and results fake they have no guarantee / warranty. You are stuck. Preliminary grade? It is broad enough that I think it is useless. I mean, 40 to 58? I do not need them for that. "Likely" genuine? What if not?
In the 40 years that I have collecting I have only posted, here, one case on which I asked for opinion on a likely fake. I am not Bill Gates so I will not risk my hard earned money on shady coins. If does not look right to me, stays on eBay...
The other problem is it takes 2 days. If an auction, you might have the time. But otherwise, it is possible that by the time you get the opinion, the coin is long gone.
Without professional graders examining the coin in hand, a photo is of limited value. This program may help bring in more bucks and potential submissions, but I think we all know that putting the ‘NGC stamp of preliminary opinion’ blurs the difference between raw and slabbed.
To me, a "likely" has no value at all.
I have always suspected that most sellers of fake coins at on-line sites are fully aware that their "coins" are fakes. They aren't going to use this or any other authentication service.
Unless these sellers are truly unaware that their coin is a fake.
I am sure there are a few sellers who actually do not know or are not aware of fakes and or have no idea how to identify these.
Probably not many.
The whole idea of this "service" raises many doubts.
I wonder if ATS proposed this to eBay, or if eBay approached ATS.
If the former, one wonders about how badly additional revenues are needed.
I think this can be helpful. A good majority of world coins are still unslabbed. I prefer slabbed coins and stick with slabbed examples however their are times you cannot find a slabbed one.....obscure country/very rare coins. I would want NGCs take on it before bidding and eventually sending it in.
Good example is how recently wasn't there that 20k+ 8 reales that was sold raw on ebay? Some members chimed in that very few examples exist, I bet its not easy to find even a slabbed one of that year. If I was a big collector of 8 reales and needed that coin, I would want NGC to take a prelim look at it for me and get their take on it before bidding. Has anyone heard anything about that coin? Is it real or fake?
Another example would be rare patterns from certain countries that rarely show up/very few examples known. I collect coins from thailand and information on many of their coins are hard to find. Even finding thai collectors are difficult as many are very private and don't share info.....trust me I've tried to contact many and no replies. I was shown 2 raw patterns recently by a collector who acquired them from a european collector.....raw and though this collector is sending them in to get graded....if he wasn't, I would want NGC to let me know immediately if these are possible fakes or the real thing. I haven't even seen pictures of that pattern slabbed though their are pictures in some thai coin books of what it looks like which I compared them to.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
@mkman123 has some good points but in general it feels a bit like an empty side-revenue ploy to me.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ everywhere.
Seems there should be some limitations with this service. Sad to see the traditional view of seeing a coin in hand seems to be a thing of the past. Maybe those who will remain nameless should think about a different avenue to Coin collecting more of a real life experience instead of a superficial experience that just cannot be captured on line and by an image.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I don't believe the risk of buying counterfeits for most world coins is very high. Not saying it can't happen as I know it does but the economics of going to the trouble of doing it don't seem to make it worthwhile. The coins are either priced too low or if not, can't be faked in sufficient quantity to generate a good enough ROI on the effort.
To my knowledge, this is why common fakes are Spanish cobs, pillar dollars, Morgan dollars, US common key dates, and any number of gold....US or otherwise. All of these coins are common enough that even at a relatively low price, it's very profitable due to volume and easier to pass off.
With most of the world coin series coins I collect, I can tell you that if even a few showed up in higher grades (or even at all) of coins I know to be scarce or rare, I would be very suspicious and I think other would be too. As an example, 1767 Peru half real has a reported mintage of 1,040,000 yet I have never heard of even one nice example. Patterson didn't have one, the mostly complete collection sold by Cayon didn't either and I don't know about the ANS (ex-Norweb). Presumably one exists somewhere with this mintage but if it showed up on eBay, I wouldn't buy it.
To me, it seems to have more value for US coins which are more often faked but then, I'd just buy a slabbed one anyway.
LOL, You have posted all the reasons why it is not dangerous for NGC. It is an "opinion."
I believe the service is aimed at the buyer not the seller.
Business for SOME TPGS MAY BE slowing down. Over the years, new services have been added and this is just one more. Got to keep the graders busy
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