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Buffalo Nickel collectors and others interested, any tips on “conserving” this 1936 nickel?
BUFFNIXX
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Just got this 1936 buff on eBay. Any one have any tips on how to conserve a coin like this? I checked out anacs and they charge
$29 to do it prior to slabbing! The coin was described by the seller as “about uncirculated, cleaned”
The area to the lower right of the Indian’s chin really needs some work! (reverse looks OK to me)
Another question to all -- what purpose does the straight lines on the Indian’s shoulder above and below the date 1936 serve?
You may also note that the coin looks like a doubled obverse die but I think this is a trick of the photography, I have seen other buffs like this that looked like a DDO but later turned out to be nothing.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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I'd start with an acetone bath.
Acetone would be a good first move.... if not successful..try olive oil for two months....if neither work, then come back here and ask again... Cheers, RickO
ANACS charges $29 for conservation, but it covers all coins (up to 20) on the submission form. If you have other coins that need it, send them also, so the $29 is spread out over more coins.
Mild ammonia solutions, like 1:1 with water or less (2:1, 3:1). Start with the lower first...This has worked on some nickel coins I have, but I experimented first with ordinary nickels.
Well, just Love coins, period.
"I checked out anacs and they charge $29 to do it prior to slabbing"
Don't throw good money at bad money. If you pay $29 to conserve plus the $15 you purchased it for you are in it $45 that is not including shipping & grading fees, if we add another $15 for that you are at $60. For between $45 to $60 you can buy one that is already graded. The seller clearly states AU/cleaned. What were your thoughts or intentions for the coin when you were bidding? If it is to fill a hole in a book clean it yourself and be happy to fill a hole. If you are somehow thinking you can turn a AU/cleaned coin into an MS coin you may want to rethink it. It sounds like a great tuition coin, it was only $15 and if it teaches you what to buy or not to buy in the future or if it teaches you how to clean a nickel it is worth the price you paid.
ICG charges $5 to first examine the coin and conserve it in most cases. This price will eventually be raised to be more in line with the other services. I would trust the conservation services at NGC, PCGS and ICG over ANACS in all cases because the folks who do the work have the most experience and they are known for their work. After Mr. Hall left PCGS, I don't know who does their conservation.
Your coin looks like an easy fix but I agree 100% with what @ifthevamzarockin has posted above.
That's not a satin proof is it?
Collector, occasional seller
Does no one else think so?
Collector, occasional seller
Is it me or are all of Bubba Sully's coins cleaned? He sells tons of low grade Barber Half's that are always dipped white.
Question, conserve it why? Reply to the above, which is why I pass on anything from Bubba. He treats coins are like a Harley and polishes the *$#@ out of them.
I took a few minutes looking through pictures on coinfacts(Thanks PCGS for putting those back!) and I stand by my initial impression of Proof.
Die polish comparison:
OP Example- Note the line arcing towards the E:
PCGS Satin Proof Example:
I can't really find any markers on the obverse other than the lines framing the date...
OP:
PCGS Pr:
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/26115737_30748751_2200.jpg
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/09600480_118338918_2200.jpg
Collector, occasional seller
Acetone and then MS70 if that doesn't work
I agree it is a Satin Proof.
peacockcoins
I have been fooled by this "photo doubling " on 1930 Buffs more times than I care to remember. Interesting to also see in on a different year, and on the date as well.
Congrats if it is a proof.
To confirm, check the "other" side of the coin-the edge, as can be seen in these images. You won't, of course, be able to use this feature to cherrypick a matte or satin proof, but if you think you have one this should confirm or refute. The proof is on the right on the first image and on the left on the second. A proof will be mirror like on the edge, and without the beveling seen on circulation strikes. The proof will appear "thicker" due to the sharp edge where the edge meets the rim.
Chris I think you have something there.
Excellent images, ChrisH821 but the problem with die markers is that they would remain if the proof die was subsequently used for circulation strikes. This may have been a routine practice since the Mint wouldn't be likely to discard a perfectly good die once it was no longer used to strike proofs.
Looks like @ChrisH821 sharp eye might be on to something.
It could be a problem "if the proof die was subsequently used for circulation strikes." as @koynekwest mentioned.
Check the edge as mentioned
It will be a great pick if it turns out to be a proof!
It may very well be worth a trip to our host for conservation & grading.
Hope your cleaned AU comes back as a nice Proof gem.
"It will be a great pick if it turns out to be a proof!
"
It may very well be worth a trip to our host for conservation & grading.
Hope your cleaned AU comes back as a nice MS gem.
Indeed it would. But even if it turns out to be a regular circulation strike coin it would be very unusual and definitely a keeper with a strike like that. According to my strike study, only .2% of this date comes with a full strike.
I wouldn't rely on the test you propose to confirm proof versus business strike. The edge of my branch mint proof like buffalo nickel (designated by NGC as PL) very much favors the edge of the proof coin. It is thicker and highly reflective just like the obverse and reverse fields. Unfortunately, I'm having problems trying to snap photos of the edge through the plastic.
I wouldn’t buy his coins with your money. In other words, yes cleaned.
The coin may have looked different enough that Bubba thought it had been cleaned already. At first glance the die polish on the reverse could look like cleaning. Might be dirty little gem that needs it's first bath.
If you have a coin that has the strike and surfaces of a matte or satin proof I'd say it's a pretty good indicator. On your PL coins, is there any beveling where the edge meets the rim? Please post some pics if you can.
I agree it has been cleaned (which is what the seller advertised) but it is an interesting topic on whether it is a proof or not. It might be worth sending to ICG for $5 worth of opinion.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I think that's what I'd do.
When I originally created this thread, I was really interested in tips on how to get this coin properly “conserved”. I think I am going to send it to ICG because of the cost. I thought it was a proof myself but did not want to mention that. Wanted to see how long it took for someone to make the same inference that I did. As it stands now I would grade it somewhere between PR60 and PR62. Maybe it would straight grade that way like it is now without conservation. Would be nice if this coin conserved well! Kudos to ChrisH821 for picking this up first.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
One thing about Bubba is that if a coin is cleaned it is described as cleaned, it is well photographed and presented.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Look at the edges at about 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock. There are tarnish marks as if this spent time in a contaminated NGC slab.
It may be a business strike, certified by NGC as such, and removed by someone to sell. Relying on those die markers to catch an educated buyer.
Hmmmm, I see no mention of cleaning on any of his Barber Half's. Here is an excellent example: https://ebay.com/itm/1902-S-Barber-Half-Dollar-GOOD/362696564875?epid=170374821&hash=item547266608b:g:WNUAAOSwsyhdI3Sj> @BUFFNIXX said:
Be sure to let us know the results.
If his coins aren’t cleaned I think BaBa cleans them for ya. He sells cleaned coins and that you can count on. I don’t see this Buff as a proof. Just my opinion. The rims are not sharp enough for starters.
It has a lot of the characteristics of a satin proof.
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on the one bud. Just the rims alone makes it a no go in my book.
Why would you want to conserve a coin that’s been cleaned? Sounds like it’s a little too late for that don’t ya think?
I’ve owned a couple of satin proofs and this one here doesn’t make the cut. Of course this is just my opinion.
Happy hunting, Joe
The strike in particular is characteristic of a proof. The surface less so. I honestly don't know if it is or if it ain't. Whatever the case a 1936 nickel with a strike like that is unusual.
Seller claimed it's cleaned, but I don't see cleaning evidence in the pictures provided. They also claimed AU, that certainly doesn't look AU to me. I'm thinking Bubba just copy/pasted a listing and threw it up without a second thought. After all, it's just a '36 Buffalo right?
Collector, occasional seller
what purpose does the straight lines on the Indian’s shoulder above and below the date 1936 serve?
i've seen them on many buffs and presumed it was simply to keep the date punch lined up. offhand can't think of any other purpose. kinda odd considering the size of the date compared to other smaller denominations. maybe it is an artifact from the date punches as the dates were punched deep enough to allow the edge of the punches to read the die/hub surface. - that is all i got.
it really isn't the easiest thing in the world to use letter/number punches of this size. it is easy for them to be rotated, tilted etc. a whole date punch is better and the oddities are more apparent on mintmarks or single punched letters/numbers elsewhere on the coin die/hub.
.
Here is how bubba sully described the coin in his ad.....
Bubba Sully's U.S. & American Coins
LISTING DESCRIPTION
Up for bid is 1936 Buffalo Nickel <> AU Details.
It is of our opinion that this coin exhibits the following characteristics: About Uncirculated - cleaned .
All grading is our opinion based on the amount of detail visible as defined in the Official ANA Grading Standards. Please examine the photos closely to form your own judgement/opinion as to grade and value and bid accordingly. We can not guarantee grading results from a 3rd party grading company.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
The coin should be delivered to me tomorrow around 11 am.
It has made it here in record time, left Dallas Texas around noon yesterday.
And is now in the post office in the town next to me (Akron Ohio)
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
From what Ron said about the coin as to the rim: first thing I'd do check the edge. The coin itself is definiltley struck up to a very high degree.
The tail itself has the 3-D look to it that very rarely gets brought up on a regular strike. I noted the rim, and kinda agree with Joe about certain areas not being knife edge enough. I don't think that would kill the "proof" designation though.
Ron mentioned correctly that the dies would be used for business strikes after the proof run. I don't think that that much detail would exist on a regular strike.
Looks proofy to me. It also looks like there is no wear.
Pete
That may be corrosion on the obverse. If so it may not be able to be conserved.
And Pete-being able to see edge would help a lot.
If this were directly submitted to pcgs for slabbing the way it is now it would come back as
“PROOF DETAILS, ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE”.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Very well struck 1936 business strike reverse follows
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Very well 1936 business strike obverse follows
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Not even close!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Just picked up the coin and IMO it is a proof. Rims look good. Will go to ICG for their conservation and slabbing
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Let's see some new pictures!
Collector, occasional seller
I also would like to see the outer rim to see if it’s glossy. It should have a highly polished look to it compared to a business strike.
As for the business strike Mr. Buffnixx is showing I’d say I like it better than the Bubba coin and it’s not cleaned. Even the rims look better. I see zero evidence that the coin your showing is a proof. Granted it has a good strike but in my book that’s where it ends.
Please do post the results of the grading. I’d also love to see some pics now that you have the coin in hand.
Good luck, Joe
I would do a potassium cyanide dip on it followed by a thourough rinse in distilled water mixed with baking soda, then rinse again with just distilled water and dry.
This die pollish "arc" to the letter E can be observed on a satin proof on Legends site and on several satin proof coins on ebay right now
I just looked at the pcgs certified '36 satin proof in my collection, and it has the exact die polish mark. I have no idea what an impaired? satin proof would be valued at, but I definitely would send your piece in for conservation and authentification.