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Should PCGS adopt an "eye appeal" designation similar to NGC's Star?
Catbert
Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
Leveraging the drddm thread on his beautiful bust half where he raised the question, should PCGS have an eye appeal designation for their coins? If 10% of the determined grade is currently based upon eye appeal, should such a PCGS (I'll call it "Diamond") proposed designation be based upon a heavier weighting percentage?
PCGS made the decision to use the PL designation which should increase submissions. Imagine the bump they'd get with a "Diamond" eye appeal version. If the number of potential coins to be slabbed are diminishing, wouldn't this be a smart move by PCGS?
Are you in favor or not? Why, why not? (this assumes you care enough to have your coins graded).
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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I would be in favor of a designation for eye appeal. I do not believe that I would resubmit my coins.
I believe the TPGs already have a de facto designation in the form of a grade bump. Just sayin'...
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I vote no. It will become highly subjective and inconsistent like NGC's star designation which is largely meaningless as there is no clear standard. Nevertheless some chase after them for registry bonuses and pay up for a mediocre coin.
I'm not in favor. Then again, some people like lipstick on pigs. I mean, it either has eye appeal or it doesn't. And who cannot see it shouldn't get a designation for it.
I need verification or correction please. I thought the PCGS + was the equivalent of the NGC *.
No, NGC has a + as well.
One means eye appeal--color, PL surfaces, etc.....the other means almost the next grade up.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Let the market decide what's appealing.
Collector, occasional seller
If the PCGS + is high for the grade, then IMO they need a way to acknowledge high eye appeal also.
From PCGS:
"Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.
Seated Dollar Collection
I have definitely seen PCGS use the + designation conspicuously on toners and other eye appealing coins.
That being said, I think it would make sense from a resubmission/business perspective to add this new layer of explicit attribution. This would be a nice way to keep the momentum going from the already announced PL news.
I wish this had been posted as a poll. Is there a way to add one?
That's what star designation is for.
And I don't think it would be a bad idea for PCGS to adopt such a designation.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I'm in favor of it.
Some people don't consider toning to equal eye appeal.
8 Reales Madness Collection
That's what I thought! Thanks for setting all of us straight.
Then those folks are not up to speed with the modern status quo concerning coin grading.
You don't need to like color but you need to know if it adds value or grade.
Absolutely not.
The plus grade from pcgs is like a half a point, or better, to the next grade. NGC has stars and pluses.
I personally think it would be a good idea for pcgs to adopt such a designation for eye appeal. I like it😉
To what post does this refer?
Should PCGS adopt an "eye appeal" designation similar to NGC's Star?
OK folks. We have a quote from PCGS that a + signifies EYE APPEAL. We have opinions that it signifies the top end of a grade. Do I believe PCGS (as I thought was the case) or members posting something different?
Just what the market needs ... no.
Head slap! I have not had lunch yet and the brain is not up to speed.
Should PCGS adopt an "eye appeal" designation similar to NGC's Star?
no.
--- reading the replies, it's nice to see that ignorance of fact is still being peddled.
That was the way I understood it. So, what’s with the star and the plus at NGC?
Eye appeal is another 'opinion' and neither uniform in acceptance nor quantifiable by any measurable standard. If a TPG would like to include THEIR opinion of eye appeal, I believe it should be separate from the grade. Cheers, RickO
Should strike detail and luster be "designated" in this process, too ?
If you need a holder to tell you the coin has eye appeal, you need a new hobby.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I'm guessing the person that posted this thread idea is a stockholder??
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Personally I think it's a terrible idea. Nobody can tell me or anyone else what we should find appealing.
TPG's should issue nothing more than a standard grade. That's it. No plus, no "First Strike", no PL, no star..... Just stop all the nonsense.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
You omitted part of the quote and thereby badly distorted its message. It mentioned quality, as well as eye-appeal: “Plus Grades exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At this rate we'll have a two hundred grade point system instead of the 70 point scale in use now (well 70 plus all the + grades in use now). It seems to me that not very long ago there was a thread on this forum calling for fewer grades and that idea received a fair amount of support.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
That's too simplistic. Look at the big picture. What you think has eye appeal another collector will not. One member here seems to disprove of toning no matter what it looks like. The Super Nova $20 is a perfect example. Ideally, we need to learn what the largest number of professionals and big spending collectors think is attractive.
@MFeld said: "You omitted part of the quote and thereby badly distorted its message. It mentioned quality, as well as eye-appeal: “Plus Grades exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade AND constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.”
Oh no, combining two different variables is what causes more subjectivity and confusion when grading. IMO, PCGS should use a + for the 30% and a star for eye appeal. That would align the two major services more closely.
It does, in some cases. But my point is that eye-appeal is a lot more subjective than a grade. Modern status quo today is different from 20 years ago and might be very different 20 years from now. This will create dimension of inconsistencies over time.
8 Reales Madness Collection
That would be nothing more than a popularity poll with no real benefit.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Absolute BS I do not and will not ever need to follow what someone else thinks is pretty, possibly the most idiotic statement I've ever seen posted. Your idea of what a collector is seems to be the definition of a lemming.
Lemming: "a person who unthinkingly joins a mass movement, especially a headlong rush to destruction"
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think he was talking about learning/knowing, not necessarily following. It’s the same with “grading standards” - you need not agree with the grades assigned by major grading companies, and you’re certainly welcome to have and apply your own standards. But it can sure help to have a feel for how the major graders and market participants view/grade coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Don't be ridiculous! Do you go to work with white socks, sandals, pink trousers and a green shirt with a yellow bow tie? There is a reason you don't. Do you buy the black, fly covered banana at the store? I assure you it is not a popularity poll. It is an eye for quality - the prevailing "good taste" at the time. Remember, at one time in the past, "Blast White" signified exceptional eye appeal.
The benefit comes from making money, not leaving any on the table, and the esteem of other collectors.
I wonder if someone could make exact size..... STICKERS ....of finest knowns that we could paste on our existing slabs.
Hmmmm......
...hey if God wanted all of us to play soccer he wouldn’t have given us arms!
Maybe like a dancing unicorn instead of a star so you know you have something special?
No one gives a RA about your perception of beauty or what you choose to believe. For now, I suggest you read my post again as it is written in simple English.
Try this: If you choose to eat dog poop because it appeals to your taste, that's fine. It's your taste. The majority of folks don't eat dog poop. The point I'm making is there are some things that a majority of collectors prefer. The people WHO CHOOSE to learn (no one is forcing them and they are not lemmings either) what those things are will usually do better that the poop eaters!
Hopefully my attempt to educate you ABOUT THE WAY THINGS ARE is no longer idiotic and I accept your apology.
From the recent PCGS Rare Coin Market Report article on Eye Appeal written by Michael Sherman states:
"Eye appeal is one of four factors PCGS looks at when grading a mint state coin. The first two, Surface Preservation and Strike are fairly objective. Bagmarks, hairlines, abrasions, and other surface imperfections are either present, or theyt are not. Strike can be measured against a theoretically "fully struck" example, and areas of weakness can be determined. The third, Luster, is a bit more difficult to measure objectively, but most trained eyes can readily tell a lustrous coin from a dull or impaired one. Which brings us to the fourth factor.
Eye Appeal is defined as the overall "look" of a coin. it is a complex and indefinable mixture of the first three factors discussed above plus toning (or any coloration to the coin's surface). Because surface preservation, strike, and luster already have played some part in the coin's grade, much of the eye appeal therefore deals with a coin's toning. Spectacularly toned coins often elicit a "wow" from the observer, and over the years, we've used a variety of colorful adjectives to describe a coin with a "wow factor."
Eye appeal only accounts for about 10% of a coin's final grade in the normal grading process, but it often plays a critical role in determining what a given coin may realize when sold."
The article then goes on to demonstrate the disparity in auction results between coins with attractive toning vs those without. My view is that rather than inflate a grade to reflect the market value of the coin that has "extra" eye appeal, why not use a star like designation to separate special "wow" coins while retaining the integrity of the grading level comprising the other 90% of factors.
From what I see, Eye appeal is more than 10% of a grade. I believe it often kicks the grade up by at least a point for many coins. I'll not mention a major coin to proof my observation.
Yes, exactly my point about how a star like designation might combat that happening.
Of course they should. And they should charge 20 bucks a pop for this service.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I agree, in theory. However, I have seen many star coins which appear to have already received a grade bump for eye appeal, in addition to the star.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I will never be able to learn anything of value from someone like yourself who advocates for group think brainwashing, I have never and will never extend an apology to you.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
No. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.