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Did anyone see this Civil War identification badge sell on eBay just now?

DCWDCW Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

It was a beauty! And a Jersey guy like me, which made my trigger finger itchy as I watched the final seconds tick tock on the auction. Where it landed floored me: $5350

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/233264260000


A few things:
1. It was badge with historical info on the soldier, in this case killed in action at Gettysburg, and it came with a photo. Rare to have a face with the name.
2. The soldier probably was not wearing this particular badge when killed, as he had been promoted to Captain and transferred to another company within the regiment.
3. The seller listed it as 14kt gold over silver, which I have a hard time believing. Probably silver plated tin, possibly gilt on the interior badge.
4. There were 12 bidders, 3 of which pushed this artifact north of $4k in the last 3 seconds and 2 bidders that came wanted it at $5300!

A great piece of American history and a price that I've not seen on one of these. If money was no object, this would be mine.

Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."

Comments

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is outstanding! Such a great piece. It did go for a boatload of money but like you said you almost never get a face to go with it.......

  • TheRegulatorTheRegulator Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭

    Right on the eve of the anniversary of Gettysburg, too.

    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow... super piece of history and combined with the picture it is rare....I can understand why it went so high... avid collectors really seek this type of memorabilia.... Would not be surprised to see it go higher if offered again. Cheers, RickO

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019 6:58AM

    Did it come with any provenance besides a picture? There are hundreds of 'identified' Civil War officer pictures owned and on the market today.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have been the underbidder!
    By a lot

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlexinPA said:
    Did it come with any provenance besides a picture? There are hundreds of 'identified' Civil War officer pictures owned and on the market today.

    Did you see the auction? The officer's picture was taken from the book "The Faces of Gettysburg." He gave his life there

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never even knew these badges existed!

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @AlexinPA said:
    Did it come with any provenance besides a picture? There are hundreds of 'identified' Civil War officer pictures owned and on the market today.

    Did you see the auction? The officer's picture was taken from the book "The Faces of Gettysburg." He gave his life there

    You answered my question: "The officers picture _was taken from the book "The Faces of Gettysburg."___
    These photos come from the National Park library I believe. Now Google the word "provenance".

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019 7:44AM

    As a life long collector of Civil War artifacts, a reenactor for many years (149th Pennsylvania Regime Volunteer Infantry) and a Pennsylvanian living 80 miles from Gettysburg I've purchased many items but nothing that could equal this. Provenance is a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality.
    plural noun: provenances

    The picture is a copy from a book which are copies from the Gettysburg National Park Museum Library. The picture is not provenance. I think the bidders should have read the sellers feedback.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlexinPA said:
    As a life long collector of Civil War artifacts, a reenactor for many years and a Pennsylvanian living 80 miles from Gettysburg I've purchased many items but nothing that could equal this. Provenance is a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality.
    plural noun: provenances

    The picture is a copy from a book which are copies from the Gettysburg National Park Museum Library. The picture is not provenance.

    Indeed. I have no idea if this badge is real or not. Not my field of expertise.

    However, if I were in the business of making fakes, I might start with a known identity and then make a fake to match it. It is suspected that some of the fake California gold rush ingots were made to match the names of people mentioned in contemporary newspapers.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019 8:35AM

    @DCW great historical artifact! Thanks for posting it. The additional information really brings you back to the times. The photo is a great association with this piece. I’m a big fan of pieces that have directly attributable history.

    @CaptHenway Very sobering. Given the historical information on the holder, I wonder if any information in this badge is available either for this person or persons in his same, earlier company.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I know what the word "provenance" means. Just because the seller did not state the provenance, doesnt mean the piece has none documented. Who knows? I didnt buy it.

    A few reasons I do not question the authenticity of this piece:

    1. If a counterfeiter was to copy a name from something like this book, why not use the man's rank and unit as it is written? You would have to do some research to uncover that he was in Co A as a Lieutenant in the NJ 11th Regt.
    2. The engraving is very much in the style of the period, a completely lost art.
    3. That deep patina doesnt happen overnight. This looks like it has been polished lightly to display the name and Regt in the center of the badge while the sides toned for a century or so.
    4. This piece wasnt listed at $5k, but it went there. A fake like this would require a lot of talent, and even then, quite a lot of risk for profit starting it off in a no reserve auction.

    An interesting piece, regardless of where you stand. Thanks for looking

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW As I said, I have no expertise in the matter, and am unqualified to say if the piece is original or not. FWIW I see nothing wrong with it, but that proves nothing.

    The engraving does indeed match the style of the 1860's. One would expect a faker to attempt to match that style. Perhaps it could be imitated with practice. I don't know.

    The fake California ingots were punched with genuine letter and number punches from the 19th Century. The alleged faker allegedly made a search for such vintage punches in antique shops. That is one way to copy a vintage style. Hand engraving is of course more difficult.

    As to the toning pattern, I find the selective polishing to be somewhat disconcerting. I personally would expect the entire face to have been polished by whoever polished it. The toned border looks a bit deliberate to me.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for all the comments. In you spare time please Google Civil War Forums - Civil War fakes or just Google Civil War relics fakes. Might get a surprise.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlexinPA said:
    Thanks for all the comments. In you spare time please Google Civil War Forums - Civil War fakes or just Google Civil War relics fakes. Might get a surprise.

    Now that I understand "provenance," I'll get right on it!
    Boy, am I getting an education today. Not my first day here, Alex.

    I would like to know what makes you think the piece I linked to is a fake, though. If you really believe it is and are not simply a contrarian.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that IS a good piece of history, I like

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019 1:33PM

    @DCW said:

    @AlexinPA said:
    Thanks for all the comments. In you spare time please Google Civil War Forums - Civil War fakes or just Google Civil War relics fakes. Might get a surprise.

    Now that I understand "provenance," I'll get right on it!
    Boy, am I getting an education today. Not my first day here, Alex.

    I would like to know what makes you think the piece I linked to is a fake, though. If you really believe it is and are not simply a contrarian.

    DCW: I do NOT know if this item is a fake. The fact that there are NO historical documents connecting this to the officer in the picture is suspicious. Where is a letter from the officer's family, or descendants? Where is there any proof the officer in question ever owned this 'badge'. In all my years of collecting Civil War artifacts I have never encountered anything of this magnitude save for a model 1861 Colt Navy that was said to have been given to a person's family ancestor during the battle of Gettysburg by General George Meade. There was a letter from the soldier and from Colt Inc. to go with it. The buyer, hopefully will have some experts look at it.

    DC: If you get a chance pm me. Thanks.

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