Great CNBC article, "Are collectibles for collecting or investing?"

jsanz

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/21/are-collectibles-for-collecting-or-investing-advisors-weigh-in.html

I thought this was a good read. Most of the points made in the article can be applied to the card market. Too bad baseball cards still get no respect. They are not even mentioned along with art and wine.

LGC

Thanks for this. Always good to pull back and remind yourself what this is all about for ourselves. For me, passion > investment, but as I get older this will start to balance and then likely go the other way. Always good to remember “caveat emptor” as recent matters have alerted/reminded us, and that the cost to sell is usually underestimated, for me anyways.

1951WheatiesPremium

I think there’s one simple question that I ask myself:

If the market ‘collapsed’ would it matter to me?

The answer may change over time for any of us. I get that, so ask yourself every so often and be VERY mindful of your answer. It comes down to the essential question: Is it the value of the item that is impressive or the item itself? That line can be very blurry from time to time but I think answering ‘both’ is a cop out.

And the answer is the line that determines whether you are an investor or collector.

jsanz

Here is another interesting quote from the article that I think many collectors/investors do not consider. I think about this too. Wines or cards, it is the same thing.

"When collecting wines and whiskies, “you’re generally buying at retail and selling at wholesale,” Waltzer said. “You’ve got the odds stacked against you early on, and it takes quite a bit of appreciation to overcome that difference.”

doubledragon

Interesting article. Personally I am a collector, so the value is meaningless to me. The card itself is the real treasure for me.

ndleo

@jsanz said:
Here is another interesting quote from the article that I think many collectors/investors do not consider. I think about this too. Wines or cards, it is the same thing.

"When collecting wines and whiskies, “you’re generally buying at retail and selling at wholesale,” Waltzer said. “You’ve got the odds stacked against you early on, and it takes quite a bit of appreciation to overcome that difference.”

I don't think that applies in our hobby except for modern boxes and really high end cards. Any of us could list on ebay and the difference in prices realized between a "dealer" and "collector" are negligible (PWCC saga aside).

sayheywyo

Good article, thanks for sharing. Quote: " It’s more important to enjoy these items because for what they are rather than hoping they’re investments.” I'm a collector first but sometime down the road I can see selling off some cardboard and keeping the ones with more value to pass on to my heirs.

Stone193

Many advisors and experts seem to agree that, whatever a client’s net worth, collectibles should usually comprise no more than 5% of a portfolio — and 10% at the very most.

This one is easy to do a budget over run on?

Mnuchin forked over 91 Million for this iron rabbit!

daltex

@ndleo said:

@jsanz said:
Here is another interesting quote from the article that I think many collectors/investors do not consider. I think about this too. Wines or cards, it is the same thing.

"When collecting wines and whiskies, “you’re generally buying at retail and selling at wholesale,” Waltzer said. “You’ve got the odds stacked against you early on, and it takes quite a bit of appreciation to overcome that difference.”

I don't think that applies in our hobby except for modern boxes and really high end cards. Any of us could list on ebay and the difference in prices realized between a "dealer" and "collector" are negligible (PWCC saga aside).

A ~10-20% haircut is still significant.

Estil

Investments are for things like like stocks and bonds. Do a collecting sort of hobby because you enjoy it and you like the challenge and the journey and so on. Don't be like those idiots in the late 90s who thought Beanie Babies would pay off half their mortgage. :P

TIP: If something is saved with the expectation that it "might be worth something someday", it probably won't (because too many others will think the same way). It's the things that people at that time did NOT think to save that end up being valuable. No really, you think cards from the 50s/60s would be worth as much as they are now if it weren't for all the moms who threw them out thinking there was no sense in keeping them? Conversely, in the late 80s/early 90s people were careful about saving their cards and keep them in mint condition (or close to it) and the companies responded by making more cards so, well, you do the math.

softparade

There will always be a healthy market for legit unopened product. Even many junk issues. Don’t underestimate the power of unopened. Look at ‘84 Donruss wax boxes. FASC version of them will be the 80’s next 1,000 box after 1980 Topps.

tulsaboy

@ndleo said:

@jsanz said:
Here is another interesting quote from the article that I think many collectors/investors do not consider. I think about this too. Wines or cards, it is the same thing.

"When collecting wines and whiskies, “you’re generally buying at retail and selling at wholesale,” Waltzer said. “You’ve got the odds stacked against you early on, and it takes quite a bit of appreciation to overcome that difference.”

I don't think that applies in our hobby except for modern boxes and really high end cards. Any of us could list on ebay and the difference in prices realized between a "dealer" and "collector" are negligible (PWCC saga aside).

I agree that this doesn't apply in some segments of our hobby. Specifically in the world of unopened, there is enough of a market for it that if you put it on ebay, sell on one of the forums like this one, or sell through one of the many Facebook groups, you can usually get pretty close to what one would consider "full retail" for your items. In fact, I would suggest that sellers in those marketplaces are redefining what the true "retail" prices are.
kevin

ndleo

@tulsaboy said:

@ndleo said:

@jsanz said:
Here is another interesting quote from the article that I think many collectors/investors do not consider. I think about this too. Wines or cards, it is the same thing.

"When collecting wines and whiskies, “you’re generally buying at retail and selling at wholesale,” Waltzer said. “You’ve got the odds stacked against you early on, and it takes quite a bit of appreciation to overcome that difference.”

I don't think that applies in our hobby except for modern boxes and really high end cards. Any of us could list on ebay and the difference in prices realized between a "dealer" and "collector" are negligible (PWCC saga aside).

I agree that this doesn't apply in some segments of our hobby. Specifically in the world of unopened, there is enough of a market for it that if you put it on ebay, sell on one of the forums like this one, or sell through one of the many Facebook groups, you can usually get pretty close to what one would consider "full retail" for your items. In fact, I would suggest that sellers in those marketplaces are redefining what the true "retail" prices are.
kevin

Plus collector/sellers usually don't have the overhead of a full time dealer.

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I think there’s one simple question that I ask myself:

If the market ‘collapsed’ would it matter to me?

The answer may change over time for any of us. I get that, so ask yourself every so often and be VERY mindful of your answer. It comes down to the essential question: Is it the value of the item that is impressive or the item itself? That line can be very blurry from time to time but I think answering ‘both’ is a cop out.

And the answer is the line that determines whether you are an investor or collector.

If the Market collapsed it would mean squat to me ......
Except for that Jeter Sp i bought because everyone was getting one . LMAO

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@Stone193 said:

Many advisors and experts seem to agree that, whatever a client’s net worth, collectibles should usually comprise no more than 5% of a portfolio — and 10% at the very most.

This one is easy to do a budget over run on?

Mnuchin forked over 91 Million for this iron rabbit!

WHAT THE

PADIdiver

Read this article about art investments and if it truly is an asset class that out-performs the market. It's a bit of a long / tough read but effectively says that when calculating the return on art they can only do so via auction prices and typically only the really high end stuff is re-sold. Only 2% of the art work bought in the last 50 years has been resold and that's the baseline for the returns calculated.

https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-often-ignored-problem-buying-art-investment

Unknown

This content has been removed.