Here's another tidbit of information on a George Soley Token. It's a bit of an advertising Token for President Cleveland, the date would be right around 1884 or later. I guess the Dutchman figure was a good advertising tool and it's a question of who used it first? Did Moline Plow Company use it first, their advertising card is from 1884 or did Soley use it first? That's likely another Soley question that will never be answered! This particular Token was one of my favorites as it was the most difficult for me to buy. As a result, I have a few doubles of this one.
@GoldenEgg said:
The 13mm Lord’s Prayer Medaletes have long been attributed to Soley. While there are other similarly sized Lord’s Prayer designs out there, Soley’s have a specific appearance which typically make his stand out among others. Many of the obverse designs paired with his reverse Lord’s Prayer engravings were also used on larger 25mm medals. We can reasonably conclude that these larger medals were engraved by him (or Barber, or Morgan) and struck by him. Both of those Columbus medals above are examples.
Here's my 1892 Columbus Father - Saviour - Defender Eglit-88 medal. It sounds like this was minimally struck by Soley. It would be great to nail down if it was Soley, Barber or Morgan that engraved this. Roger indicated Soley and Barber were in business together so that may be a link.
@GoldenEgg said:
The 13mm Lord’s Prayer Medaletes have long been attributed to Soley. While there are other similarly sized Lord’s Prayer designs out there, Soley’s have a specific appearance which typically make his stand out among others. Many of the obverse designs paired with his reverse Lord’s Prayer engravings were also used on larger 25mm medals. We can reasonably conclude that these larger medals were engraved by him (or Barber, or Morgan) and struck by him. Both of those Columbus medals above are examples.
Here's my 1892 Columbus Father - Saviour - Defender Eglit-88 medal. So it sounds like this was minimally struck by Soley. It would be great to nail down if it was Soley, Barber or Morgan that engraved this. Roger indicated Soley and Barber were in business together so that may be a link.
Yeah, I'm trying to find a Nathan Eglit book to see if he identified the maker of Eglit-88 and 89, I'm still in the middle of figuring out how to get this information. Also, today I received another signed Soley Token that I bought last week and what I find interesting is it looks to me like Soley designed Tokens for both political parties. James Blaine ran against Cleveland for President. As far as the 13mm Medaletes, that's another area where I have doubles I gotta get rid of, problem is, not too many collectors know who Soley was and many don't even care.
@tokenpro said:
Eglit does not list a die sinker or designer for either E-88 or E-89, only the alternate catalog #s and metals.
Thanks! I've seen them attributed to Morgan in some auction descriptions but I'm not sure where that comes from. There's no tell tale "M" initial as on some of Morgan's pieces.
@GoldenEgg said:
The 13mm Lord’s Prayer Medaletes have long been attributed to Soley. While there are other similarly sized Lord’s Prayer designs out there, Soley’s have a specific appearance which typically make his stand out among others. Many of the obverse designs paired with his reverse Lord’s Prayer engravings were also used on larger 25mm medals. We can reasonably conclude that these larger medals were engraved by him (or Barber, or Morgan) and struck by him. Both of those Columbus medals above are examples.
Here's my 1892 Columbus Father - Saviour - Defender Eglit-88 medal. So it sounds like this was minimally struck by Soley. It would be great to nail down if it was Soley, Barber or Morgan that engraved this. Roger indicated Soley and Barber were in business together so that may be a link.
Yeah, I'm trying to find a Nathan Eglit book to see if he identified the maker of Eglit-88 and 89, I'm still in the middle of figuring out how to get this information. Also, today I received another signed Soley Token that I bought last week and what I find interesting is it looks to me like Soley designed Tokens for both political parties. James Blaine ran against Cleveland for President. As far as the 13mm Medaletes, that's another area where I have doubles I gotta get rid of, problem is, not too many collectors know who Soley was and many don't even care.
Wow, great 1884 James G. Blaine political medal! That seems like a really rare one!!
More common is the 1884 Blaine / John A. Logan medal with the same reverse. Here's one that sold on eBay back on June 1, 2016.
These would be great for a Washingtonia collection as well.
One of these popped up on eBay a few days ago. It’s a 25mm Soley reduction of the Us Mint’s 76mm medal by George T Morgan, which Morgan thoughtfully signed twice on the obverse, so you would know it was his!
@GoldenEgg said:
One of these popped up on eBay a few days ago. It’s a 25mm Soley reduction of the Us Mint’s 76mm medal by George T Morgan, which Morgan thoughtfully signed twice on the obverse, so you would know it was his!
Wow! That's a looker!
Where do you see the two markers for Morgan?
Do we know how Soley did his reductions? Did he have his own machine or did he do them on US Mint machines. Wikipedia indicates the US Mint acquired/used the following machines before discontinuing machines in 2008 in favor of CNC milling. Pretty amazing info on the Wikipedia page.
Contamin Pantograph (1836-1867): coincides with the first US steam powered coining press
If you mean the following, I was able to pick it up. I like it as it’s nice and sharp with some luster remaining.
Also, these bear a striking familiarity to the following photo from the 1890 publication Illustrated History of the United States Mint by George Evans. I found the Wikipedia page interesting because it mentioned he had to resign when someone stole gold on his watch.
@GoldenEgg said:
Nice pickup. This particular 25mm reduction comes in several compositions, so keep an eye out for others.
I may have worded it incorrectly. The 76mm original medal obverse is signed twice by Morgan. Here is one of mine:
I can’t answer your question about his reduction process.
Wow. That's a gorgeous medal! Is this the first time glasses are on a US Mint product? The photo in George Evans's US Mint book is unattributed but it looks unmistakeable that Morgan used the photo for his engraving.
Regarding the markers, perhaps Morgan's markers were on the same die with the lettering and Soley was working off an earlier piece without the lettering / signatures as his uses different punches.
Also, what material do we have indicating Soley did the reductions? Are there Mint or other records?
@GoldenEgg said:
Nice pickup. This particular 25mm reduction comes in several compositions, so keep an eye out for others.
I may have worded it incorrectly. The 76mm original medal obverse is signed twice by Morgan. Here is one of mine:
I can’t answer your question about his reduction process.
Wow. That's a gorgeous medal! Is this the first time glasses are on a US Mint product? The photo in George Evans's US Mint book is unattributed but it looks unmistakeable that Morgan used the photo for his engraving.
Also, what material do we have indicating Soley did the reductions? Are there Mint or other records?
Not the earliest with glasses. The James Ross Snowden portrays his pair, done sometime around 1860. There may be others as well, but I’d have to do some research.
The evidence that Soley did them is circumstantial. The fact that it’s a reduction of a US Mint official, and that both the 25mm and 13mm versions have a similar appearance to other Soley works.
There may be written evidence available, but I haven’t seen anything. In the Julian reference, he suggests that Soley may have been the creator of the 25mm medals.
Here are two new pick ups from Soley. The first is a store card is from the Pennsylvania Cabinet. I have never seen this piece before and haven’t been able to find any other specimens. The second is an uncommonly nice specimen of his 1882 William Penn Lord's Prayer medallette.
Great looking Medals but the one that wins hands down to me is Soley Storecard Token! Probably the only one in existence, if you ever care to sell, please give me a holler Z! Here's a pic and link of one similar to the one I just bought last week or so! Mine is signed, these two aren't! I got the pics off a previous ebay sale. That Soley guy was a trip, that said he must have had reasons for signing some and leaving other's blank. Also I can only guess that in the late 1800's not too many people cared about Medals and Tokens!
Here are two new pick ups from Soley. The first is a store card is from the Pennsylvania Cabinet. I have never seen this piece before and haven’t been able to find any other specimens. The second is an uncommonly nice specimen of his 1882 William Penn Lord's Prayer medallette.
Great looking Medals but the one that wins hands down to me is Soley Storecard Token! Probably the only one in existence, if you ever care to sell, please give me a holler Z!
I'm not selling any time soon but I'll think of you if I ever do!
Here it is with my new photo layout:
Here's a pic and link of one similar to the one I just bought last week or so! Mine is signed, these two aren't! I got the pics off a previous ebay sale. That Soley guy was a trip, that said he must have had reasons for signing some and leaving other's blank. Also I can only guess that in the late 1800's not too many people cared about Medals and Tokens!
That's really interesting some are signed and some are not! Definitely signed is the bomb! Congrats on your piece. Finding signed pieces is not easy!
I'm guessing people in the 1800s cared about medals way more than they do today! Look at all the ones that people wore. When was the last time you saw someone wearing a medal, even at a Presidential campaign! Unfortunately pins have taken over!
fretboard > @fretboard said:
On a separate note, I just bought a Robert Lovett Jr. Medal. It kinda happened by accident as I saw it on ebay listed as a BIN for $9.99 so I bought it! It's a huge one, made of white metal measures across at 39.7mm on my caliper and 3.2mm thick and on the trunk is RL. It was delivered today but this will be my only Lovett piece as they're way too pricey for me!
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the 1889 Washington medal is not by Robert Lovett (he passed in 1879). The RL is for Robert Laubenheimer. Rulau and Fuld incorrectly attributed the piece to Robert Lovett and this misinformation is repreated in Ebay sales. See Musante GW-1082 for the correct attribution, although it may actually be Rudolph instead of Robert.
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the 1889 Washington medal is not by Robert Lovett (he passed in 1879). The RL is for Robert Laubenheimer. Rulau and Fuld incorrectly attributed the piece to Robert Lovett and this misinformation is repreated in Ebay sales. See Musante GW-1082 for the correct attribution, although it may actually be Rudolph instead of Robert.
Okay, I appreciate the heads up! I'll write that down so I don't forget!
I'm not selling any time soon but I'll think of you if I ever do!
Yep, I'll be waiting!!
I'm guessing people in the 1800s cared about medals way more than they do today! Look at all the ones that people wore. When was the last time you saw someone wearing a medal, even at a Presidential campaign! Unfortunately pins have taken over!
Yeah that's true! It's amazing to see all the Tokens other engravers signed like George Lovett, some of his aren't signed but not many!
1879 Pennsylvania State Fair Tokens Struck in Centennial Building - Silver & Brass
I was finally able to pick up the top two recently. The brass is NGC MS63 from Tim Gabriele. The silver is raw with an unknown provenance. Check out the edge on the top of the silver right image. That's classic Soley!
I've been looking for these ever since I missed the ICG MS65 Pennsylvania Cabinet specimen below on March 19, 2019, so it's taken about 1½ years to get these.
@Zoins said:
This is a 13mm piece and I haven't seen Soley sign this or any of his pieces struck using the 13mm gold dollar dies / collars.
What is the signature on the truncation. Is it “K”? I can’t magnify any images well enough to see what it is.
I can't make out anything from the photos. @fretboard's photo looks like has 2 initials more than the other to me. Perhaps a microscope camera is in order? I've been wanting to get one and this could be a good reason to.
@Zoins said:
This is a 13mm piece and I haven't seen Soley sign this or any of his pieces struck using the 13mm gold dollar dies / collars.
What is the signature on the truncation. Is it “K”? I can’t magnify any images well enough to see what it is.
No, I've never come across any 13mm's with any signature at all. Here's a couple of new ones to add to my collection. The Lincoln is 13mm but the Washington is 13.5mm and I don't think the Washington was made by George Soley at all, the font don't look right. It's not the first time I ran across a small one that wasn't Soley's work, someone else was out there but I don't know who it was. The link shows the time I ran into a 10mm medalet that I didn't know anything about, yeah it happens!
I forgot to include a known Soley George Washington 13mm together with the odd ball one. The weird George Washisisngton measures a little tricky at 13.5mm which by itself means nothing but everything combined makes me think Soley didn't make it. The top pic is the Soley Token and the bottom one is the unknown. I couldn't pic them side by side as my phone is messed up right now!
@fretboard said:
I forgot to include a known Soley George Washington 13mm together with the odd ball one. The weird George Washisisngton measures a little tricky at 13.5mm which by itself means nothing but everything combined makes me think Soley didn't make it. The top pic is the Soley Token and the bottom one is the unknown. I couldn't pic them side by side as my phone is messed up right now!
The "GOD AND MY COUNTRY" token is interesting. Are there other tokens with the same reverse die?
@fretboard said:
Here's another tidbit of information on a George Soley Token. It's a bit of an advertising Token for President Cleveland, the date would be right around 1884 or later. I guess the Dutchman figure was a good advertising tool and it's a question of who used it first? Did Moline Plow Company use it first, their advertising card is from 1884 or did Soley use it first? That's likely another Soley question that will never be answered! This particular Token was one of my favorites as it was the most difficult for me to buy. As a result, I have a few doubles of this one.
1887 Souvenir of the Western & Southern Tour - DeWitt GC-1888-12 - Ex-Steve Hayden
I've been so busy that I just missed this one with the same obverse.
This is especially nice because it has Soley's name on it.
1887 Pres. & Mrs. Cleveland Presidential Tour Medal - 25.5mm - DeWitt GC-1888-12 - NGC MS66 - Ex-Brian Dobbins, Brian S. Holt
I liked the Cleveland Bell Tour medal so much I went out and picked up this one. Finding these tokens is tough! It's now graded NGC MS66 but unfortunately no longer has the original silk ribbon. NGC was asked to return it but they didn't. I'm wondering if they had to cut it off. So tip to everyone, remove the ribbon before grading if you want to keep it.
Looking at this token more, it seems like the Liberty Bell had nothing to do with Cleveland's Tour, but was a play on words for "The Nation's Favorite Belle" who was Frances Cleveland, the President's wife. The bell looks the same as on some 1887 Constitution Centennial medals.
I just looked at the Soley Lord's Prayer Medalette in detail again and noticed that the text on the bell have a very similar style to the "Favorite Belle" medal above:
Just ran across this one from Alex A. Pancheco of Tipsico Coin.
This one looks pretty good for a Soley piece given the Sans Serif font on the obverse and the denticles.
Alex A. Pancheco wrote:
1896 Presidential Campaign Souvenir, G. O. P., William McKinnley, Soley Medal
13mm diameter medallette struck for the 1896 Presidential campaign of William McKinnley. Same Obverse portrait as used on the 1897 Inaugural piece I am offering separately as a separate listing, the Reverse uses the initials of the Grand Old Party. Presumably by George Bache Soley as it shares size, general design, purpose and materials as any number of others he struck from the early 1890's onward. A number of similar pieces were struck around the period of the 1896 and 1900 Presidential campaigns. Holed for suspension on a stickpin presumably; this type of medal was also commonly issued on a small ribbon, however that did not require the brass rings for suspension (not those I have seen anyway). This piece I am calling Choice Almost Uncirculated, as other than evidence of a light fingerprint and loss of Gold-plating on Bill's cheek, it is about as nice as you are likely to locate one. The surfaces are a bit darker as it is either raw Brass or the Gold-plating was not applied as heavily (most Soley medals I see are Gold-plated).
There are a lot of Lord's Prayer Medalettes with a solider motif on them.
I don't necessarily think they are all done by Soley, but the text and denticles on this one looks very much like Soley to me. It looks especially similar to @fretboard's Lincoln piece I added again for comparison below.
@tokenpro said:
The GW-985 was issued by Soley but uses a William Key obverse portrait die.
Is there any original documentation indicating such? I think a lot of stuff gets attributed to Soley without solid evidence. Even I am guilty of attributing something to Soley based on the “fabric” of the piece.
Fwiw, I’ve started to question whether this reverse die is indeed a Soley work, even if his original Lord’s Prayer reverse die is very similar to this.
@tokenpro said:
The GW-985 was issued by Soley but uses a William Key obverse portrait die.
Is there any original documentation indicating such? I think a lot of stuff gets attributed to Soley without solid evidence. Even I am guilty of attributing something to Soley based on the “fabric” of the piece.
I try not to make positive attributions without mentioning if any random speculation is involved.
The attribution was first noted to me back in the '80'sby the late Soley collector George Ganter and is confirmed by friend Neil Musante in his modern classic work Medallic Washington. I've lost contact with a former customer/collector who purchased the original Soley display booth from the 1876 Centennial Expo to see if he had any period documentation for post-Centennial product.
@GoldenEgg said:
Fwiw, I’ve started to question whether this reverse die is indeed a Soley work, even if his original Lord’s Prayer reverse die is very similar to this.
It can be hard for me to tell with some of these pieces given the state of information we have. I would love to have a database of photos for comparison purposes across different sizes and attributions that can be grouped by subject matter and do overlays to compare letter punches, denticles and other details.
What is causing your doubts and do you think it's more similar to another die sinker? At least for the larger political pieces, there seem to be some similarity between the work of Soley and Peter Lewis Krider, both of Philadelphia. Krider had a lot of his private pieces struck by the US Mint for him. I imagine Soley would have done the same. Is Krider known to have made Lord's Prayer medalettes or other pieces the size of a gold dollar?
@tokenpro said:
The GW-985 was issued by Soley but uses a William Key obverse portrait die.
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This piece is on its way to me. Is it also a Soley piece then? It looks like the same GW bust.
It’s 16.5 mm dia. I couldn’t find info on this one.
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Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@fretboard said:
Here's a couple of pics of George Soley's 13mm Tokens or Prayer Tokens as some people call them. These three are double sided which is fairly rare and the only double sided ones in my collection. I thought I had more but once again, I was wrong!
Thanks for posting your collection here @fretboard! I've been inspired by all the pieces to get some more myself.
I've been looking for this Grant Tomb medal ever since you posted this trio!
It's taken me months to find, but I finally have one. Thanks again for the heads up!
Here's an image of the Tomb from the Library of Congress by Grant Wright:
@tokenpro said:
The GW-985 was issued by Soley but uses a William Key obverse portrait die.
Is there any original documentation indicating such? I think a lot of stuff gets attributed to Soley without solid evidence. Even I am guilty of attributing something to Soley based on the “fabric” of the piece.
I try not to make positive attributions without mentioning if any random speculation is involved.
The attribution was first noted to me back in the '80's by the late Soley collector George Ganter and is confirmed by friend Neil Musante in his modern classic work Medallic Washington. I've lost contact with a former customer/collector who purchased the original Soley display booth from the 1876 Centennial Expo to see if he had any period documentation for post-Centennial product.
Was just reading this thread again and decided to look up George Ganter. It's great to know that there were earlier Soley collectors.
Comments
Here's another tidbit of information on a George Soley Token. It's a bit of an advertising Token for President Cleveland, the date would be right around 1884 or later. I guess the Dutchman figure was a good advertising tool and it's a question of who used it first? Did Moline Plow Company use it first, their advertising card is from 1884 or did Soley use it first? That's likely another Soley question that will never be answered!
This particular Token was one of my favorites as it was the most difficult for me to buy. As a result, I have a few doubles of this one.
Awesome President & Mrs. Cleveland medal @fretboard! You really have some special pieces and are an advanced Soley collector!
The corn cob is awesome!
Here's my 1892 Columbus Father - Saviour - Defender Eglit-88 medal. It sounds like this was minimally struck by Soley. It would be great to nail down if it was Soley, Barber or Morgan that engraved this. Roger indicated Soley and Barber were in business together so that may be a link.
Yeah, I'm trying to find a Nathan Eglit book to see if he identified the maker of Eglit-88 and 89, I'm still in the middle of figuring out how to get this information. Also, today I received another signed Soley Token that I bought last week and what I find interesting is it looks to me like Soley designed Tokens for both political parties. James Blaine ran against Cleveland for President. As far as the 13mm Medaletes, that's another area where I have doubles I gotta get rid of, problem is, not too many collectors know who Soley was and many don't even care.
Eglit does not list a die sinker or designer for either E-88 or E-89, only the alternate catalog #s and metals.
Thanks! I've seen them attributed to Morgan in some auction descriptions but I'm not sure where that comes from. There's no tell tale "M" initial as on some of Morgan's pieces.
Wow, great 1884 James G. Blaine political medal! That seems like a really rare one!!
More common is the 1884 Blaine / John A. Logan medal with the same reverse. Here's one that sold on eBay back on June 1, 2016.
These would be great for a Washingtonia collection as well.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1884-logan-blaine-republican-pres-139964056
Okay, bravo for the heads up, I'll have to scratch that idea!
Wow, that's a beauty of a Logan/ Blaine Token!! I'll have to keep an eye out for that one as this is the first time I've heard about it!
This one is one of the 25mm or so ones:
And this one is of his signature size, approx 13mm:
One of these popped up on eBay a few days ago. It’s a 25mm Soley reduction of the Us Mint’s 76mm medal by George T Morgan, which Morgan thoughtfully signed twice on the obverse, so you would know it was his!
Wow! That's a looker!
Where do you see the two markers for Morgan?
Do we know how Soley did his reductions? Did he have his own machine or did he do them on US Mint machines. Wikipedia indicates the US Mint acquired/used the following machines before discontinuing machines in 2008 in favor of CNC milling. Pretty amazing info on the Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reducing_Machine
If you mean the following, I was able to pick it up. I like it as it’s nice and sharp with some luster remaining.
Also, these bear a striking familiarity to the following photo from the 1890 publication Illustrated History of the United States Mint by George Evans. I found the Wikipedia page interesting because it mentioned he had to resign when someone stole gold on his watch.
Nice pickup. This particular 25mm reduction comes in several compositions, so keep an eye out for others.
I may have worded it incorrectly. The 76mm original medal obverse is signed twice by Morgan.
I can’t answer your question about his reduction process.
Wow. That's a gorgeous medal! Is this the first time glasses are on a US Mint product? The photo in George Evans's US Mint book is unattributed but it looks unmistakeable that Morgan used the photo for his engraving.
Regarding the markers, perhaps Morgan's markers were on the same die with the lettering and Soley was working off an earlier piece without the lettering / signatures as his uses different punches.
Also, what material do we have indicating Soley did the reductions? Are there Mint or other records?
Not the earliest with glasses. The James Ross Snowden portrays his pair, done sometime around 1860. There may be others as well, but I’d have to do some research.
The evidence that Soley did them is circumstantial. The fact that it’s a reduction of a US Mint official, and that both the 25mm and 13mm versions have a similar appearance to other Soley works.
There may be written evidence available, but I haven’t seen anything. In the Julian reference, he suggests that Soley may have been the creator of the 25mm medals.
Great looking Medals but the one that wins hands down to me is Soley Storecard Token! Probably the only one in existence, if you ever care to sell, please give me a holler Z! Here's a pic and link of one similar to the one I just bought last week or so! Mine is signed, these two aren't! I got the pics off a previous ebay sale. That Soley guy was a trip, that said he must have had reasons for signing some and leaving other's blank. Also I can only guess that in the late 1800's not too many people cared about Medals and Tokens!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLED-1884-JAMES-G-BLAINE-REPUBLICAN-PRESIDENTIAL-CAMPAIGN-TOKEN/153713514773?hash=item23ca0a1915:g:ZNoAAOSwtdtdwuDh
I'm not selling any time soon but I'll think of you if I ever do!
Here it is with my new photo layout:
That's really interesting some are signed and some are not! Definitely signed is the bomb! Congrats on your piece. Finding signed pieces is not easy!
I'm guessing people in the 1800s cared about medals way more than they do today! Look at all the ones that people wore. When was the last time you saw someone wearing a medal, even at a Presidential campaign! Unfortunately pins have taken over!
fretboard > @fretboard said:
On a separate note, I just bought a Robert Lovett Jr. Medal. It kinda happened by accident as I saw it on ebay listed as a BIN for $9.99 so I bought it! It's a huge one, made of white metal measures across at 39.7mm on my caliper and 3.2mm thick and on the trunk is RL. It was delivered today but this will be my only Lovett piece as they're way too pricey for me!
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the 1889 Washington medal is not by Robert Lovett (he passed in 1879). The RL is for Robert Laubenheimer. Rulau and Fuld incorrectly attributed the piece to Robert Lovett and this misinformation is repreated in Ebay sales. See Musante GW-1082 for the correct attribution, although it may actually be Rudolph instead of Robert.
Okay, I appreciate the heads up! I'll write that down so I don't forget!
Yep, I'll be waiting!!
Yeah that's true! It's amazing to see all the Tokens other engravers signed like George Lovett, some of his aren't signed but not many!
Here is one of my favs....and actually, probably the most common piece ever minted by Soley!
Awesome. I love the 1832 US Mint piece too! That type was one of my first Soley pieces.
1879 Pennsylvania State Fair Tokens Struck in Centennial Building - Silver & Brass
I was finally able to pick up the top two recently. The brass is NGC MS63 from Tim Gabriele. The silver is raw with an unknown provenance. Check out the edge on the top of the silver right image. That's classic Soley!
I've been looking for these ever since I missed the ICG MS65 Pennsylvania Cabinet specimen below on March 19, 2019, so it's taken about 1½ years to get these.
Is this piece signed on the base of the bust? I thought I had owned one in the past and that it was.
Also, is there what links these two pieces to Soley? These two pieces seem off, compared to other Soley productions.
This is a 13mm piece and I haven't seen Soley sign this or any of his pieces struck using the 13mm gold dollar dies / collars.
I'm thinking this is a Soley piece because the obverse is also paired with the following Lord's Prayer die.
The bust is also very similar to this one posted by @fretboard:
What is the signature on the truncation. Is it “K”? I can’t magnify any images well enough to see what it is.
I can't make out anything from the photos. @fretboard's photo looks like has 2 initials more than the other to me. Perhaps a microscope camera is in order? I've been wanting to get one and this could be a good reason to.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/gold-filled-medalet-10mm-george-b-soley.315357/
I forgot to include a known Soley George Washington 13mm together with the odd ball one. The weird George Washisisngton measures a little tricky at 13.5mm which by itself means nothing but everything combined makes me think Soley didn't make it. The top pic is the Soley Token and the bottom one is the unknown. I couldn't pic them side by side as my phone is messed up right now!
The "GOD AND MY COUNTRY" token is interesting. Are there other tokens with the same reverse die?
1887 Souvenir of the Western & Southern Tour - DeWitt GC-1888-12 - Ex-Steve Hayden
I've been so busy that I just missed this one with the same obverse.
This is especially nice because it has Soley's name on it.
Here's HK-44 with both sides engraved by George Soley from Jeff Shevlin.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/34726381
1887 Pres. & Mrs. Cleveland Presidential Tour Medal - 25.5mm - DeWitt GC-1888-12 - NGC MS66 - Ex-Brian Dobbins, Brian S. Holt
I liked the Cleveland Bell Tour medal so much I went out and picked up this one. Finding these tokens is tough! It's now graded NGC MS66 but unfortunately no longer has the original silk ribbon. NGC was asked to return it but they didn't. I'm wondering if they had to cut it off. So tip to everyone, remove the ribbon before grading if you want to keep it.
Looking at this token more, it seems like the Liberty Bell had nothing to do with Cleveland's Tour, but was a play on words for "The Nation's Favorite Belle" who was Frances Cleveland, the President's wife. The bell looks the same as on some 1887 Constitution Centennial medals.
Tour information:
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/president-grover-clevelands-goodwill-tour-of-1887
I've only traced 3 MS specimens so far:
I just looked at the Soley Lord's Prayer Medalette in detail again and noticed that the text on the bell have a very similar style to the "Favorite Belle" medal above:
This one is from jjcoin on eBay.
Just ran across this one from Alex A. Pancheco of Tipsico Coin.
This one looks pretty good for a Soley piece given the Sans Serif font on the obverse and the denticles.
Is this a George Soley piece?
Here's a different Soley piece, from the USS Soley! I never even knew about this ship and now need to read up on it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Soley
There are a lot of Lord's Prayer Medalettes with a solider motif on them.
I don't necessarily think they are all done by Soley, but the text and denticles on this one looks very much like Soley to me. It looks especially similar to @fretboard's Lincoln piece I added again for comparison below.
Zzz > @Zoins said:
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I don’t know but it’s beautiful
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
The GW-985 was issued by Soley but uses a William Key obverse portrait die.
Is there any original documentation indicating such? I think a lot of stuff gets attributed to Soley without solid evidence. Even I am guilty of attributing something to Soley based on the “fabric” of the piece.
Fwiw, I’ve started to question whether this reverse die is indeed a Soley work, even if his original Lord’s Prayer reverse die is very similar to this.
I try not to make positive attributions without mentioning if any random speculation is involved.
The attribution was first noted to me back in the '80'sby the late Soley collector George Ganter and is confirmed by friend Neil Musante in his modern classic work Medallic Washington. I've lost contact with a former customer/collector who purchased the original Soley display booth from the 1876 Centennial Expo to see if he had any period documentation for post-Centennial product.
It can be hard for me to tell with some of these pieces given the state of information we have. I would love to have a database of photos for comparison purposes across different sizes and attributions that can be grouped by subject matter and do overlays to compare letter punches, denticles and other details.
What is causing your doubts and do you think it's more similar to another die sinker? At least for the larger political pieces, there seem to be some similarity between the work of Soley and Peter Lewis Krider, both of Philadelphia. Krider had a lot of his private pieces struck by the US Mint for him. I imagine Soley would have done the same. Is Krider known to have made Lord's Prayer medalettes or other pieces the size of a gold dollar?
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This piece is on its way to me. Is it also a Soley piece then? It looks like the same GW bust.
It’s 16.5 mm dia. I couldn’t find info on this one.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Wow! That's a great looking piece! Congrats!
That certainly looks like the obverse Washington die by William Key from the Neil Musante cataloged GW-985.
I don't know much about the Soley or any attribution to pieces in this size so I'm eager to hear from others.
(1876) 1776 Liberty Bell - Mining Tools Medalette - by George Bache Soley - Raw
This is a gold-dollar sized piece I recently ran across for the first time and picked up.
I've never seen this mining tools die but it's paired with his 1776 Liberty Bell die, often seen with his Lord's Prayer die and Independence Hall die.
In hand, it's very proof-like and reflective.
Anyone else ever seen one of these before? Anyone ever seen this mining tools die paired with any other die?
1892 Columbus Three Presidents Medal (SCQD) - 25.5m - Eglit-89
Here's an Eglit-89 with the ribbon from wesman7.
I'm still curious what these look like when worn.
Very nice token. That obverse die is neat.
Great little thread!
Thanks for posting your collection here @fretboard! I've been inspired by all the pieces to get some more myself.
I've been looking for this Grant Tomb medal ever since you posted this trio!
It's taken me months to find, but I finally have one. Thanks again for the heads up!
Here's an image of the Tomb from the Library of Congress by Grant Wright:
https://www.loc.gov/resource/pga.03126/
Thanks and I agree. I've never seen this obverse die used before.
Was just reading this thread again and decided to look up George Ganter. It's great to know that there were earlier Soley collectors.
Here's a thread on Ganter:
Who is/was G. R. Ganter in respect to Civil War Tokens?
Here's newspaper ad from page 82 of "The Fare Box" issue fo 1/1/1990.
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/526822?page=81
His estate was sold in 2000 per E-Sylum:
The E-Sylum: Volume 3, Number 40, October 1, 2000, Article 3
https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v03n40a03.html