Tell us your biggest jump in grade....
Swampboy
Posts: 12,880 ✭✭✭✭✭
....for a coin you crossed or resubmitted to one or more TPGs.
Also, if not yours, tell us about one you've heard about.
I've got an example I'll post with an image when I get home.
It might be a contender for the biggest jump if we go strictly by numbers; say AU55 to MS60 is a five not two i.e. AU58 to MS60.
2
Comments
Had a half dime go from ANACS 58 to PCGS 62 (4). Probably not that remarkable....
Don't know if this counts, but had a restoration submission go from NGC 55 to PCGS 62 (7). Slightly more interesting...
This may be hard to beat. I had an 1824 Capped Bust Half that I bought a few years ago that was graded VF-25 by NGC. It was very nice for the grade, but I was getting all my collection into Pcgs holders as I could so I cracked it out and sent it to Pcgs where they graded it XF-40. I was very surprised by that and very happy.
The Garrett 1804 $1 was grade XF40 by QDB in 1980 and brought $400K. My syndicate bought in 1985 for $180K for its location in the condition census and sold it a few weeks later for $200K. It later graded AU55 at NGC and auctioned a few years ago at $1,840,000 (IIRC).
So we've got a fifteen point jump if you're a double surrealist.
Maybe a dozen years ago I saw a proof Barber half go PCGS 67, 65(!), 66, frustration NGCPF68 then a few years later Gene Gardner crossed the semi-reflective jewel to PCGS PR68.
A 1934 doubled die obverse quarter from SEGS MS64 to PCGS MS66. There's a huge jump in value from 64 to 66. This was over ten years ago.
I have considered this post for a while . . . and as most are aware, I try to post 'lightly', preferring to enjoy the information and education . . . . but in this case, I can't resist any longer.
(Keeping a certain degree of anonymity, although those who know me and or the clues here will perhaps figure out the player(s).
A very close dealer-friend recently offered me a coin not generally in my wheelhouse, but cute for Type. He had acquired a late-date Large Cent in MS65+ and was looking to move it for a quick profit. It was certified ATS . . . . NOT a PCGS coin! By pix, it had that certain 'steel-blue' look that I now have come to know as a hallmark of that dealer's copper. Light tinges of red showing through . . . . hard surfaces, and an overall good look on the pic. I declined the coin via our email/text exchange, but was interested how he acquired just the second known 65+ coin in that date.
So . . . during a phone call on some other inventory, I asked about how he got the large cent . . . not something he might normally possess. He disclosed he had purchased an ANACS AU58, but knew it could be 'worked' a bit (the marvels of 1980s chemistry--now $100+ a bottle).
Step 1 - Crack the ANACS AU58
Step 2 - Allow the coin to experience the fullness of chemistry and skill
Step 3 - Resubmit ATS
Step 4 - Market your MS65+
I have no idea how that compares overall with the coins of bigger players . . . but just my personal observation. We are all products of our experiences . . .and I will keep this one in the back of my mind on every grading thread we post . . . .
Drunner
Had a 1927-D Buffalo 3HL that was graded VF-20 Details Scratched by SEGS. Came back from our hosts a clean VF-30. Another 27D SEGS-20 3HL scratched came back a clean 20 in the same submission. I wasn't really surprised about the details issues, marks on both coins seemed pretty minor to me, but the 10-point jump was nice.
Well I bought a 1932-D Washington Quarter on eBay raw. When I got it it had cotton fibers glued to the surface. I think someone taped the quarter in a cloth handkerchief for safe keepings. So I had to soak it and it looked like an MS-62 or 63 max. Well I sent it to our host and it came back AU-58. I looked at that coin for a long time and convinced myself that it was not AU. Cracked it out and resubmitted and it came back MS-62.
Today the Price Guide for AU-58 is $550 and MS-62 is $1,175. Very happy I resubmitted
Here is my Washington Quarter Variety Registry Set
This is my Washington Quarter Proof Variety Registry Set
UNC details to MS66
Au details to MS64 CAC
I know of one dealer who got an anacs 58 (old white) to a pcgs pf64 (1895-p Morgan)
One of the guys at the Raleigh coin show told me recently he got an anacs 58 (old small white ) into a pcgs 63 (1907 high relief) $20.
I have never had more than a couple of grade points , most of the time, its gets up'd after I sold it!!!
20 or so years ago Country Lane Rarities back in a golden age of coins and numismatics, Bill Von Elm in Santa Cruz had some really nice PCGS old holder coins. I had a few that upgraded big time. PCGS XF45 to NGC AU58 or 50-58 from P to N!
I've had a few 53 to 58, and more than a handful 55/58 move to 62.
I also had a 58 drop to 45-details. Ugh.
Lance.
Most of these swings were fairly recent (within the last 2 years), right?
The Garrett 1804 Dollar. Catalogued by Bowers as an EF-40. Graded by ANACS as an EF-40. Awarded 18 rarity points and now in Proof-58 slab. It ain’t!
1875-CC 20c
PCGS VF20 -> ICG F15 scratched.
But I got that sweet,sweet BF-1 confirmation, so, worth it.
CRACK!!!!!!
I have had others but these are recent
1806 half dollar went from pcgs 60 to pcgs 64
Had 1875-s 20 cent go from PCI AU50 to PCGS MS62
1806/5 half dollar from ngc 25 to pcgs40
5 grading points on a circ. Yippee!
Just today was looking at a very low MS pop 1841 Seated Half in PCGS MS64. LIttle research revealed a year prior it was a PCGS 62 selling for half the price. Sort of spoils the coin when you know it was once graded a bit lower.
Recent. Within 3-4 years, yes.
By and large, regrades were very positive. 48 of 169 improved. All bust halves.
Lance.
12 to 30 is the biggest jump I recall personally.
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Thanks for all those replies.
Wow! There are some interesting stories there.
My biggest jump was 11 and that was for a PCI AU50 Indian quarter eagle described online by the dealer as ‘nice’.
My intention was to have a ring made (a gift thought up by my wife) so I cracked it out.
Once we got the idea what it would cost to have a ring made and have the coin mounted we changed direction and my wife went out and found a ring already made.
So then I sent the ‘nice’ coin off to our hosts and it came back home MS61 (I would rather have had any AU grade lol).
Since I saved it from an untimely death now I have what I call my ‘rescue coin’.
Tough series to grade.
NGC fatty 1948 half from 63 to 65fbl, cracked and resubbed to a 65+FBL, coin was really a decent 66FBL and may have ended up there after I sold it.
Also not a massive grade jump but had an 1891 morgan go N63 - P Alt surfaces - P64
Body Bag to Gem is a nice jump. $10 Lib I bought in a PCGS MS64 holder. Cracked it out for "upgrade".
It then went NGC BB, PCGS BB, and finally NGC MS66. So 64, BB, BB, 66. It doesn't happen every day. And that was literally a 3 point grade jump as I could only get MS63 money for this coin when it was RAW.
I also a gem unc seated half bought out of a Stacks auction for MS66 money. It then graded NGC MS65. That was a crusher. Resubmitted a month later and got NGC MS67.
Thank lord for some pictures. I was starting to get hungry for them. All this talk and not enough pics
Very interesting topic though!!
NGC 64 to PCGS 66 on a common, blast white Morgan
1982 No 'P' Roosevelt Dime. Submitted in 1983 to ANACS before slabs, got an MS-63. Resubmitted last year, got an MS-66.
the grades are in
1916-D Mercury Dime
G-4 to VG-8 CAC.
I’ve had a couple Bust Halves go from 53 to 58, and 58 to 62
My personal biggest jump was 45 to 55.
And I bought a Bust half that started out in a NGC 55 gold cac slab (that I believe was cracked out), and is now in a PCGS 63 slab with a green cac. Unfortunately I didn’t buy it as a 55
Dave
After reading all these it makes me want to crack out a couple of my genuine morgans and a few I though were PL that didn't get the designation for resubmission.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
So who is your Coin Doc "friend" ?
RE:
A very close dealer-friend recently offered me a coin not generally in my wheelhouse, ... He had acquired a late-date Large Cent in MS65+ and was looking to move it for a quick profit. ... I now have come to know as a hallmark of that dealer's copper. ... I declined the coin via our email/text exchange, but was interested how he acquired just the second known 65+ coin in that date.
So . . . during a phone call on some other inventory, I asked about how he got the large cent . . . not something he might normally possess. He disclosed he had purchased an ANACS AU58, but knew it could be 'worked' a bit (the marvels of 1980s chemistry--now $100+ a bottle).
Step 1 - Crack the ANACS AU58
Step 2 - Allow the coin to experience the fullness of chemistry and skill
Step 3 - Resubmit ATS
Step 4 - Market your MS65+
I have never cracked and resubmitted... Just happy with the coin I purchased.....I am not surprised though, that many coins can receive a higher (or sometimes lower) grade on re-submission... without standards, this will continue to happen - both because of opinions and fluidity of guidelines. So, for those who indulge in this exercise, go for it...Cheers, RickO
AU58 -> MS66
Mercury dime
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
And this is why we have CAC.
I think about 6 years ago i cracked out a 1920 slq in a 62FH and it came back a 64FH!! I did make a nice buck on it but shouldve kept it now thinking later on.
Skier . . . . . good point. I hope JA has the knowledge of 'the look' of 'triked' copper . . . . . I am sure he has.
I have had a couple personal responses . . .and am in the middle of responding to all of them. I am sure if I potty in the same bathroom that an elderly ex- B&M shop guy can roll a Q-Tip over an AU coin, stabilize it with a bit of acetone, then fire the thing off ATS for a Gem+ grade . . . . it is not the only suburban bathroom where a bit of enhancement is done.
My overall take is just that I am a skeptic when it comes to grades. The current gold thread is grist for this mill. Yup . . .grade coins on your own according to your standards . . . but you might want to be aware of the 'look' you are searching for may be a myth created over a kitchen sink.
Critical ---
---We are discussing ATS . . . Not our hosts here. Extrapolate as you wish in the hobby.
---The test sample is small. I am discussing one coin.
---To succeed, you need pre-fluorocarbon trike, and a bit of technique. Be prepared to pay if you can find it.
---My elderly dealer friend has also had some failures . . . most recently with Indian Cents.
---I offer no value judgement here. Grade and enjoy your coins as you see fit.
---I am just a putz that likes old holders. I just run into this numismatic stuff by accident from time-to-time.
Drunner
I
An 1881-S PCGS 63 rattler purchased off eBay a year ago for $55 went PCGS MS 65. A 2 point uptick, I was very elated. It sold for $135 from my online store a few months ago. 3 other various crack outs (2 WLH, better date Peace dollar ICG, NGC, Rattler went same grade. Generics have been hit hard in the sheet in 65: WLH now $75 and Morgan’s $100.
I don’t believe there is any slam dunk in picking rattlers. The good stuff may have already been picked and flipped. If seller has good photos look at the coin carefully to see if it has potential or pass if bad photos.
When setup at shows if activity slow I may take a gander around the bourse room trawling but slim pickings. I am sure there are many trawling to pick off upgrade material or coins that will sticker where the CAC bid in the sheet substantially higher. At shows I get dealers all the time “do u have anything below bid”. (No stupid I sell at retail only on my nice stuff and if you want pick me off you need pay retail).
I wish this had been mine!
Wow! I want those too.
AU details to ms64. Same service and I was the submitter both times.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
NGC VF30 Barber Half to PCGS XF45, Really thought it might go AU!
"Au details to MS64 CAC", "PCI AU50 to PCGS MS62" - stuff like this really gets my attention.
I had one go from a 30 to a 40.
The more I read this thread the more I'm losing my faith in third party grading.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Over the years I've had three PCGS XF45 Morgans go up to AU53... all submitted in the holder and all 1901-Ps.
No offense intended, (particularly since I'm one of the above posters), but I'm starting to think WE are responsible for gradeflation?
Here is a big one. NGC was the conservative grader and PCGS the giveaway grader. Maybe it was always an MS64? This was a coin I was watching on Heritage but ran out of funds to purchase when it was in the NGC holder. Now it is forever gone to me. A collector can never pay triple for a coin knowing that it once graded a lot lower.
NGC AU58 - $1020 at auction
Six months later - PCGS MS64 - $3,120.00
That's not an ANACS slab. That was an NGC slab.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thanks.