1836 Capped Bust 50c - Civil War Dog Tag?
Sean1990
Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
I've had this in my collection for quite a while now and it is one of my favorite items. Would anyone like to shed some light on it's value and how often coins were the host for dog tags in the Civil War? I have tracked down who I believe it belonged to. This is definitely out of my wheelhouse and would love any speculation or information one you more knowledgable numismatist may have! http://www.civilwardata.com/active/hdsquery.dll?Soldierhistory?C&248679
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You have a magnificent piece of American history. Thanks so much for sharing it.
Looks like he was in the 57th Virginia Infantry, which makes sense with the 57 on the half.
https://books.google.com/books?id=BzKSDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA385&lpg=PA385&dq=austin+h.+johnson+57th&source=bl&ots=-Ygid3UvAu&sig=ACfU3U0ahE31WticMWFbeRxpZgAz6tjJhQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_gc_hytriAhXFs1kKHXAlDQkQ6AEwDnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=austin h. johnson 57th&f=false
A little blurb on the 57th:
The 57th Virginia Volunteer Infantry Regiment was an infantry regiment raised in Virginia for service in the Confederate States Army during the American Civil War. It fought mostly with the Army of Northern Virginia.
The 57th Virginia was organized in September 1861, by adding five independent companies to the five companies of E.F. Keen's Battalion. Some of the men were from Powhatan, Pittsylvania, and Botetourt counties. The unit was assigned to General Armistead's, Barton's, and Steuart's Brigade, Army of Northern Virginia.
It participated in many conflicts from the Seven Days' Battles to Gettysburg, served in North Carolina, then saw action at Drewry's Bluff and Cold Harbor. The 57th continued the fight in the Petersburg trenches north of the James River and around Appomattox.
It reported 113 casualties at Malvern Hill and lost more than sixty percent of the 476 engaged at Gettysburg. There were 7 killed, 31 wounded, and 3 missing at Drewry's Bluff, and many were disabled at Sayler's Creek. On April 9, 1865, the unit surrendered 7 officers and 74 men.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
It appears that the hole in the circulated coin was there before the Letters were added. One thing that could indicate is that we have a very "artsy" maker who placed the letters to each side of it. Additionally, a 50c piece was a lot of money and much larger than any of the dog tags I've seen.
Very cool.
I don't mean to infer that this is what you were implying, but just a question: How would one authenticate such an item?
I mean, if I've got a holed seated or bust coin it has some minimal value. If I stamp a name and a regiment into it, I've got a very pricey Civil War collectible.
[Again, I'm NOT saying that was done here. I am asking how one could know that it wasn't done here. There does appear to be very little wearing down of the stamped letters.]
Have CAC (Confederate Authentication Company) put a lick em stamp on it.
Also perhaps it’s not a dog tag, but a remberance piece worn by a family member, friend, or army buddy.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
The hole looks period as the beveled champhering is commonly seen on other coins or tokens used as CWT dog tags or suspended along with them.
A very good observation that I held back. No point in educating any fakers. Without adding that bit of evidence, I came right out and implied it.
There is no way in a timely and inexpensive way to prove this is a genuine piece. Therefore, IMO a TPGS should decline to examine it and give a no-decision and a refund.
If it belonged to me and I still lived in DC, I would give it to my cousin (ex-FBI and history buff) and let him see if the Bureau could date the punches. They have all sorts of things on file to help solve cases.
When I saw this post the first thing that went through my mind was I should make one on a Seated quarter cull (hole) and look up another CSA unit and the name of a soldier. The fact that is is a southern item gives it more value. The best way to be able to detect fakes of any kind is to be able to do the "work." That's why top of the line or "reformed" coin doctors" can spot the efforts of others.
Put a half dollar around your neck and wear it for a day. It would be more believable as a pocket piece if the hole was not there.
PS I have made no determination one way or the other about the authenticity of the OP's coin.
It is a NO DECISION.
I am rather suspicious that it is a modern stamping on an old holed cull, but of course this is just a hunch.
Thanks for all the replies! I have definitely been curious as to authenticity myself as I took a chance on it! If I were to make a piece myself I'd personally pick someone of a higher rank or more notable. Took me quite a while track down the information I did on it! Wish there was a specialist on this I could have review it in person and help make a determination!
Authentic or not, you had fun researching the piece and provided a nice bit of history for all of us. Thanks and Good Luck. I hope it turns out to be authentic!
Private Johnson may have known my great great uncle, who was from Pittsylvania Co. and in Armistead's brigade; he was wounded in Pickett's charge, but survived as a union captive.
Is there any family history that goes with the coin? I am willing to be convinced it is vintage.
Very interesting piece. Regardless of its provenance. ..
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Dog tags or "identification discs" as they were known as back then were much more commonly used by Union soldiers. Here is an example by Joseph Merriam:
Anything like the OP coin, I would believe only if it came with a provenance of ownership if not directly from family. You can buy full stamping sets from WWI very cheaply and make what you want.
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"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
This would be a great way to greatly increase the value of near worthless coin. I would pass on any such item regardless of the "story" being told about it.
I swear I have seen AH Johnson somewhere before in a thread on these, but I'm not inspired to dig a lot. I am always suspicious of these with the dark black looking like it was applied with a magic marker. The wide flat dots for example I have trouble believing could even be remotely natural relative to the coin surfaces. Look at it with a microscope. Of course this doesn't preclude an owner of an original doing that just to highlight the counterstamping, but it looks cheesy to me.
I was also thinking I had seen this item before....or at least a stamped coin with the name Johnson... my memory may be confused...Good luck with establishing authenticity... let us know of further developments. Cheers, RickO
This comment is not about the OP's coin it is a reply to the post above. When someone makes a fake of something like a dog tag or memento of a Civil War battle it is very easy to find a genuine example. That way you don't need to research a soldiers name or unit because the hard work is already done!
wow, that's some cool history for sure