I remember that bust half from the Long Beach show two years ago, @BryceM. Lovely.
What interested me was the amazing strike of a late die state coin. Denticles are worn/absent. Stars are drawn to the rim. The reverse die crack at 7k. Yet it has amazing detail in Liberty's curls, and very well formed stars (unusual on the right obverse).
I looked at a lot of 1812 O.103's and none compared, strike-wise. I have a mid-grade AU with almost perfect denticles but not the superlative definition in the bust and stars. Congrats on snagging something special!
Lance.
Was doing some research on plus coins in preparation of a Reconsideration submission to our hosts, and came across some very nice coins in this post. Figured I’d add a few of my own:
MS66+RD
PR64+BN
MS66+
MS66+
MS65+
MS64+
Also, question for the OP @ilmcoins —I noticed the cert# for the beautiful half eagle that started this thread is no longer active. Were you able to get it in a 65 holder?
I reckon the 58+ is the best of the plus grades in that they typically have better eye appeal than their 60-61 brethren. I notice a few above. Here’s one of mine:
Within about two weeks of my last post to this thread, I got one obviously, I must’ve forgotten about the thread else I would have posted it but…
Here goes:
Roughly 60% of my coins eligible for a plus have a plus. Every one has a CAC. Some were purchased with a plus, but others got it via Reconsideration. I’ll post just a few that got it via Reconsideration. The plus on each of these seven coins shown had a very significant increase in market value as a result of getting the plus.
Have some fun by looking up the value bump by these coins getting a plus via Reconsideration (to make it easy, don’t bother figuring the value with the CAC sticker):
1. Now a MS64+RD w/CAC. I call this my “Ash Wednesday” Half Cent, lol:
2.
3. Now a MS66+RD w/CAC:
4. Now a MS66+RB w/CAC:
5. Now a MS64+ w/CAC, despite the booger coming out of Liberty’s nose:
6. Now a MS66+FH w/CAC:
7. Now a MS64+ w/CAC:
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said:
Roughly 60% of my coins eligible for a plus have a plus. Every one has a CAC. Some were purchased with a plus, but others got it via Reconsideration. I’ll post just a few that got it via Reconsideration. The plus on each of these seven coins shown had a very significant increase in market value as a result of getting the plus.
7. Now a MS64+ w/CAC:
Steve, this Q Eagle is phenomenal!
I had a feeling you’d reply to this resurrected thread about plus grades, as it was actually your prior posts on the topic that I was seeking out in my research, as I remembered you have had significant success with earning upgrades.
I am planning to submit a handful of my type coins, all of which I believe are strong for the grade, none of which have any obvious issues, and almost all of which have a green CAC sticker. Based on your prior posts, this seems to be the sweet spot. Three of them are 58s and I’d love to get them into the coveted, low pop, top pop everyman 58+ grade.
I also have half a dozen in my Washington Q set that I’ve selected as potential plus candidates, but none of these are CAC and the value jump doesn’t really justify submission, but I may include them for educational purposes anyway (perhaps on a separate submission ticket).
@OldIndianNutKase said:
I posted these on, another thread, but they are ALL 67+. 68's in PR Buffs are triple the money, and I can't grade well enough to tell the difference.
OINK
All beautiful, but that last one is a-mazing! Nice to see you posting again, I feel like I haven’t seen many lately and you have some great coins!
I have around 50 + coins in PCGS holders. Here are a few in 67+
I had a feeling you’d reply to this resurrected thread about plus grades, as it was actually your prior posts on the topic that I was seeking out in my research, as I remembered you have had significant success with earning upgrades.
I am planning to submit a handful of my type coins, all of which I believe are strong for the grade, none of which have any obvious issues, and almost all of which have a green CAC sticker. Based on your prior posts, this seems to be the sweet spot. Three of them are 58s and I’d love to get them into the coveted, low pop, top pop everyman 58+ grade.
I also have half a dozen in my Washington Q set that I’ve selected as potential plus candidates, but none of these are CAC and the value jump doesn’t really justify submission, but I may include them for educational purposes anyway (perhaps on a separate submission ticket).
Any other general advice on the topic?
Thanks for your kind words.
Regardless of any “strategies”, mine or anyone elses, the three most important things are:
The coin itself.
The coin itself.
The coin itself.
If the coin does not merit a plus, chances are VERY high it will not get one. With that said, here are some thoughts:
My sense is if there is no CAC sticker on the coin, and as such you don’t care for that or any other reason getting a new cert number, pass or fail with the upgrade, then submitting via Regrade might have the best chance of success. I have NO data for that, it’s just my sense. With Regrade, the coin cannot get downgraded (as it can with a crackout and then a raw submission). I think there may be some fine print with Regrade if in the rare event they do lower the grade, then their monetary Guarantee comes into play. But they don’t guarantee color suffixes, so I suggest only submitting copper coins via Regrade if you feel confident about the color suffix. I personally don’t use Regrade because every submission of mine has a CAC sticker, and I want the process of automatically getting the CAC sticker reapplied if a plus gets added, as easy as possible. That’s why I use Reconsideration, where the cert number is retained with an upgrade. If no upgrade, the holder itself is left as is.
If submitting via Reconsideration, you can check “ANY”, so potentially you can get a boost to the next higher whole grade number. But if you have a CAC sticker and the coin upgrades to the next whole grade number, that coin then has to requalify to get the sticker back for that higher grade. If CAC determines that it’s a “C” coin at that higher grade, you won’t get the sticker back. But having a coin in that next higher whole grade may increase the market value enough that you may not care about not having the sticker! Otherwise, just check the “Plus Only” box on the submission form.
My sense is that the chance of success of submitting a coin already with a plus via Reconsideration in hopes of getting to the next whole grade number is very very small. Save your money, unless your last name is Simpson, Bass or some other big name. I’m NOT saying they get preferential looser standards. I’m saying their coins are so spectacular that an upgrade from a plus to the next whole grade is often warranted!
I hope you found this helpful.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I had a feeling you’d reply to this resurrected thread about plus grades, as it was actually your prior posts on the topic that I was seeking out in my research, as I remembered you have had significant success with earning upgrades.
I am planning to submit a handful of my type coins, all of which I believe are strong for the grade, none of which have any obvious issues, and almost all of which have a green CAC sticker. Based on your prior posts, this seems to be the sweet spot. Three of them are 58s and I’d love to get them into the coveted, low pop, top pop everyman 58+ grade.
I also have half a dozen in my Washington Q set that I’ve selected as potential plus candidates, but none of these are CAC and the value jump doesn’t really justify submission, but I may include them for educational purposes anyway (perhaps on a separate submission ticket).
Any other general advice on the topic?
Thanks for your kind words.
Regardless of any “strategies”, mine or anyone elses, the three most important things are:
The coin itself.
The coin itself.
The coin itself.
If the coin does not merit a plus, chances are VERY high it will not get one. With that said, here are some thoughts:
My sense is if there is no CAC sticker on the coin, and as such you don’t care for that or any other reason getting a new cert number, pass or fail with the upgrade, then submitting via Regrade might have the best chance of success. I have NO data for that, it’s just my sense. With Regrade, the coin cannot get downgraded (as it can with a crackout and then a raw submission). I think there may be some fine print with Regrade if in the rare event they do lower the grade, then their monetary Guarantee comes into play. But they don’t guarantee color suffixes, so I suggest only submitting copper coins via Regrade if you feel confident about the color suffix. I personally don’t use Regrade because every submission of mine has a CAC sticker, and I want the process of automatically getting the CAC sticker reapplied if a plus gets added, as easy as possible. That’s why I use Reconsideration, where the cert number is retained with an upgrade. If no upgrade, the holder itself is left as is.
If submitting via Reconsideration, you can check “ANY”, so potentially you can get a boost to the next higher whole grade number. But if you have a CAC sticker and the coin upgrades to the next whole grade number, that coin then has to requalify to get the sticker back for that higher grade. If CAC determines that it’s a “C” coin at that higher grade, you won’t get the sticker back. But having a coin in that next higher whole grade may increase the market value enough that you may not care about not having the sticker! Otherwise, just check the “Plus Only” box on the submission form.
My sense is that the chance of success of submitting a coin already with a plus via Reconsideration in hopes of getting to the next whole grade number is very very small. Save your money, unless your last name is Simpson, Bass or some other big name. I’m NOT saying they get preferential looser standards. I’m saying their coins are so spectacular that an upgrade from a plus to the next whole grade is often warranted!
I hope you found this helpful.
Steve
Thanks for the helpful advice, Steve. I’ll have to give some thought to the Reconsideration vs. Regrade, as you raise some great points. It seems to me that if a coin would warrant a full point upgrade (and one doesn’t care about holder, sticker, etc.) then Regrade may be the better choice.
My hypothesis is that the graders are more likely to assign whole number grades to raw coins, rather than take time to parse out half increments on every coin—they only look at each one for a few seconds and it seems like it’d take more mental bandwidth to parse the difference between a 65+ and a 65 or 66, than between a 65 and 66. I have the luxury of looking at one of my coins for hours to come to a conclusion, but they are part of a business and need to be efficient.
With Reconsideration, my sense is that the potential for a plus grade may be more top of mind, as the submitter is putting an already graded example in front of the graders and saying, “hey, this one deserves a second look”. I do wonder if the graders see what was requested on the submission form (ex., consider for plus only, or designation (PL), etc.). My guess is no, but that’d be interesting to know.
I’ve submitted very few coins for either service, but I did get a full point upgrade earlier this year on a Reconsideration of a $20 Liberty in MS63 CAC, which got bumped to a 64. That was unexpected, as I was actually trying for a PL but left it unrestricted on the submission form, and I think it got bumped because of the eye appeal rather than technical grade. I don’t think it’ll CAC as a 64, but I haven’t tried yet.
Comments
I remember that bust half from the Long Beach show two years ago, @BryceM. Lovely.
What interested me was the amazing strike of a late die state coin. Denticles are worn/absent. Stars are drawn to the rim. The reverse die crack at 7k. Yet it has amazing detail in Liberty's curls, and very well formed stars (unusual on the right obverse).
I looked at a lot of 1812 O.103's and none compared, strike-wise. I have a mid-grade AU with almost perfect denticles but not the superlative definition in the bust and stars. Congrats on snagging something special!
Lance.
Was doing some research on plus coins in preparation of a Reconsideration submission to our hosts, and came across some very nice coins in this post. Figured I’d add a few of my own:
MS66+RD
PR64+BN
MS66+
MS66+
MS65+
MS64+
Also, question for the OP @ilmcoins —I noticed the cert# for the beautiful half eagle that started this thread is no longer active. Were you able to get it in a 65 holder?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Currently not one 1909 s 67 rb
Maybe I’m a few years…..
Currently ms66+
58+CAC
66+CAC
64+CAC
66+CAC
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
83 is a 64+.
85 is a 63+.
I've never been able to make one and have only one in my collection, the weirdest score there is, XF45+ with a green bean for good measure.
I reckon the 58+ is the best of the plus grades in that they typically have better eye appeal than their 60-61 brethren. I notice a few above. Here’s one of mine:
Smitten with DBLCs.
Here are MOST of mine...All are MS 66+:
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
64+CAC
63+CAC
64+CAC
64+CAC
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
PCGS 65+ RB
PCGS 64+
Lovely coins. It’s interesting to compare the strikes.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Thanks! All are fully struck except the 1947-D but it more than makes up for it in COLOR.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Within about two weeks of my last post to this thread, I got one obviously, I must’ve forgotten about the thread else I would have posted it but…
Here goes:
My YouTube Channel
Then last year:
My YouTube Channel
Then last week
My YouTube Channel
Only one I have -
MS66+RB
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Roughly 60% of my coins eligible for a plus have a plus. Every one has a CAC. Some were purchased with a plus, but others got it via Reconsideration. I’ll post just a few that got it via Reconsideration. The plus on each of these seven coins shown had a very significant increase in market value as a result of getting the plus.
Have some fun by looking up the value bump by these coins getting a plus via Reconsideration (to make it easy, don’t bother figuring the value with the CAC sticker):
1. Now a MS64+RD w/CAC. I call this my “Ash Wednesday” Half Cent, lol:
2.
3. Now a MS66+RD w/CAC:
4. Now a MS66+RB w/CAC:
5. Now a MS64+ w/CAC, despite the booger coming out of Liberty’s nose:
6. Now a MS66+FH w/CAC:
7. Now a MS64+ w/CAC:
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I posted these on, another thread, but they are ALL 67+. 68's in PR Buffs are triple the money, and I can't grade well enough to tell the difference.
OINK
Steve, this Q Eagle is phenomenal!
I had a feeling you’d reply to this resurrected thread about plus grades, as it was actually your prior posts on the topic that I was seeking out in my research, as I remembered you have had significant success with earning upgrades.
I am planning to submit a handful of my type coins, all of which I believe are strong for the grade, none of which have any obvious issues, and almost all of which have a green CAC sticker. Based on your prior posts, this seems to be the sweet spot. Three of them are 58s and I’d love to get them into the coveted, low pop, top pop everyman 58+ grade.
I also have half a dozen in my Washington Q set that I’ve selected as potential plus candidates, but none of these are CAC and the value jump doesn’t really justify submission, but I may include them for educational purposes anyway (perhaps on a separate submission ticket).
Any other general advice on the topic?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
All beautiful, but that last one is a-mazing! Nice to see you posting again, I feel like I haven’t seen many lately and you have some great coins!
I have around 50 + coins in PCGS holders. Here are a few in 67+
Thanks for your kind words.
Regardless of any “strategies”, mine or anyone elses, the three most important things are:
If the coin does not merit a plus, chances are VERY high it will not get one. With that said, here are some thoughts:
I hope you found this helpful.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@crazyhounddog Wow, Joe, nice herd of Buff's. Gorgeous
@lkeigwin Very nice, Lance, but if that's a couple then with all those spares, can you spare one. lol
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Mr_Spud
@MrSpud If I could buy one CBH it would be one exactly like your 1834. Amazing coin.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Thanks for the helpful advice, Steve. I’ll have to give some thought to the Reconsideration vs. Regrade, as you raise some great points. It seems to me that if a coin would warrant a full point upgrade (and one doesn’t care about holder, sticker, etc.) then Regrade may be the better choice.
My hypothesis is that the graders are more likely to assign whole number grades to raw coins, rather than take time to parse out half increments on every coin—they only look at each one for a few seconds and it seems like it’d take more mental bandwidth to parse the difference between a 65+ and a 65 or 66, than between a 65 and 66. I have the luxury of looking at one of my coins for hours to come to a conclusion, but they are part of a business and need to be efficient.
With Reconsideration, my sense is that the potential for a plus grade may be more top of mind, as the submitter is putting an already graded example in front of the graders and saying, “hey, this one deserves a second look”. I do wonder if the graders see what was requested on the submission form (ex., consider for plus only, or designation (PL), etc.). My guess is no, but that’d be interesting to know.
I’ve submitted very few coins for either service, but I did get a full point upgrade earlier this year on a Reconsideration of a $20 Liberty in MS63 CAC, which got bumped to a 64. That was unexpected, as I was actually trying for a PL but left it unrestricted on the submission form, and I think it got bumped because of the eye appeal rather than technical grade. I don’t think it’ll CAC as a 64, but I haven’t tried yet.
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts Steve.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.