I guess I was playing Ring around the Rosie earlier.
Geordie, I’m curious as to what purpose you show up and post for nowadays?
- because I can. I have the same posting privileges here that you do. I also have different priorities in life, and posting on message boards isn't high on the list these days. I rarely post on FCB, either - used to check in several times a day.
I sincerely can’t remember the last time you actually posted anything about Sports that was just “Sports” and not social injustice or crying about the newest thing that all the liberals are up in arms about like this netting thing.
- there's no requirement that I post about "just 'sports'" or a team or a player. There's no requirement that I post about things you like or agree with. That same lack of requirements is enjoyed by everyone here.
Honest question, do you secretly like stirring the pot up here?
- honest answer: no. I get zero effing enjoyment out of being in bitter opposition to people I once respected a hell of a lot more back in the day than I do now. My social conscience as it relates to sports and people in the sports world is looked on with disdain and contempt by a great many here, and yes, that's troubling to me. But when the topic comes up, as it did with spectacular results in the "is Kaepernick a jerk?" thread, I have as much a right to air my opinions as y'all. It's not a requirement for us to agree on those kinds of things. I have done my best to speak with respect and context, but that's not good enough for some. Dry-hump Old Glory, or you're un-American. Stand at attention with tears running down your face while you belt out the Anthem in front of your couch before a game, or you're not a true patriot. Sorry, Paul, that's not me, not even when I was a card-carrying member of the "right".
Whatever. I'll chime in when I see fit. As before, if you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, comment or move along - idgaf which you choose anymore.
To close - I posted this without a single thought about social justice or baying with the liberal mob about the need for nets. I love baseball and love the fan experience and interaction with the game. It should hurt all of us that a little girl got hit, which I think it does. Nets, in my opinion (and others) are an inexpensive and unobtrusive way to keep fans safer (note: not entirely safe, but safer) from line drives and flying bats. But then the discussion devolved, as it often seems to do around here, about snowflakes and liberals and pussies, as if people that disagree with each other have to be reduced to labels and terms of contempt. That, if anything, keeps me from posting more - how 'bout that for an answer as to why I don't post more about "just 'sports'", Paul?
@LarkinCollector said:
If it was an adult on their phone who got hit, it either wouldn't be a news story or we'd be shaming them for not paying attention. Every baseball ticket I've seen for at least a couple decades has the warning similar to this ...
Since it was a little girl, it's outrage mob time, never let a crisis go to waste. I'm glad to hear she'll be OK, but her parents should have their heads examined for putting her in that situation while being completely unprepared for their obligation to protect her.
I would bet that the vast majority of fans are unaware that that warning is even there. You're not required to acknowledge it to buy tickets and not all versions of tickets include the warning. In general, such passive "agreements" are not considered binding. Baseball, however, has long had exceptions made for it that other industries do not get.
@TNP777 said:
I guess I was playing Ring around the Rosie earlier.
Geordie, I’m curious as to what purpose you show up and post for nowadays?
- because I can. I have the same posting privileges here that you do. I also have different priorities in life, and posting on message boards isn't high on the list these days. I rarely post on FCB, either - used to check in several times a day.
I sincerely can’t remember the last time you actually posted anything about Sports that was just “Sports” and not social injustice or crying about the newest thing that all the liberals are up in arms about like this netting thing.
- there's no requirement that I post about "just 'sports'" or a team or a player. There's no requirement that I post about things you like or agree with. That same lack of requirements is enjoyed by everyone here.
Honest question, do you secretly like stirring the pot up here?
- honest answer: no. I get zero effing enjoyment out of being in bitter opposition to people I once respected a hell of a lot more back in the day than I do now. My social conscience as it relates to sports and people in the sports world is looked on with disdain and contempt by a great many here, and yes, that's troubling to me. But when the topic comes up, as it did with spectacular results in the "is Kaepernick a jerk?" thread, I have as much a right to air my opinions as y'all. It's not a requirement for us to agree on those kinds of things. I have done my best to speak with respect and context, but that's not good enough for some. Dry-hump Old Glory, or you're un-American. Stand at attention with tears running down your face while you belt out the Anthem in front of your couch before a game, or you're not a true patriot. Sorry, Paul, that's not me, not even when I was a card-carrying member of the "right".
Whatever. I'll chime in when I see fit. As before, if you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, comment or move along - idgaf which you choose anymore.
To close - I posted this without a single thought about social justice or baying with the liberal mob about the need for nets. I love baseball and love the fan experience and interaction with the game. It should hurt all of us that a little girl got hit, which I think it does. Nets, in my opinion (and others) are an inexpensive and unobtrusive way to keep fans safer (note: not entirely safe, but safer) from line drives and flying bats. But then the discussion devolved, as it often seems to do around here, about snowflakes and liberals and pussies, as if people that disagree with each other have to be reduced to labels and terms of contempt. That, if anything, keeps me from posting more - how 'bout that for an answer as to why I don't post more about "just 'sports'", Paul?
Ok I was really just curious, most of the people that post here are actively rooting for a team or teams and I haven’t seen you do that in awhile, in fact I don’t think I’ve seen you post much after the Kap is a scumbag...err excuse me...is he a jerk thread. I didn’t say anything was a requirement nor would I suggest anything of the sort since I’m not a Mod and don’t really care either way, again I just didn’t know why you bother logging in to CU sports talk if your not ever talking about your specific team or sport but whatever thanks for answering and your 100% correct that you can do as you chose and I Really DGAF. Nothing personal at the end of the day, I don’t care either way how you feel about me but I will say that I know your a good guy Geordie.
@Coinstartled said:
Compromise. Net off a family section...offer a free hot dog and root beer to the kids. leave the rest of the stadium alone.
That's far too rational. By the tone of the title, this thread was started to beat you into obedience by offering a victim no one could object to and the "only possible" solution, not allow offers of any compromise solutions.
I recommend all Philly fans be strategically seated in sections where it's been sabremetrically proven the most line drives are hit and that they are distracted as much as possible throughout each game.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I can't understand why compassion for a child struck by a foul ball and being irritated about more netting need to be mutually exclusive of each other. some seem to be saying that if my feeling is people need to pay attention that I'm a heel. why is that?? things happen around me all day because people aren't paying attention to what they're doing or to what's happening around them. ever been sitting behind someone at a stop-light that turns green?? most cars start going, except the one's with people who are on their cell phones. it happened to me just the other day.
as a parent, taking a young child to a ballgame entails some responsibility.
ever been to a game and wonder why some people are even there?? they are either playing on their phone, talking constantly to the people around them, drunk or so young that they are incapable of protecting themselves. maybe there should be a special section for those fans which will allow people like me(who are there to enjoy the game) to enjoy the game. more nets won't stop this from happening. it may make it happen less often, but it will still happen. trouble is always brewing whenever people are involved.
we are entrenched in the Age of the Victim where anything negative that takes place is always someone else's fault. I certainly hope the child struck by the ball recovers fully, the parents need to be held accountable.
That poor kids parents choice put her in that position. But regardless of this debate, we are going to get ugly obtrusive netting shoved up our ass without a choice.
@grote15 said:
I recommend all Philly fans be strategically seated in sections where it's been sabremetrically proven the most line drives are hit and that they are distracted as much as possible throughout each game.
Philly fans are tough. We can catch line drives with our teeth. If you see a MLB game used baseball being sold on Ebay and notice bite marks on the pic, chances are it was caught by a Phillies fan.
@softparade said:
Awesome post keets. Age Of The Victim for sure.
That poor kids parents choice put her in that position. But regardless of this debate, we are going to get ugly obtrusive netting shoved up our ass without a choice.
I've been thinking about this some more and unfortunately you are probably right.
MLB owners don't want some snowflake news media narrative out there that says MLB owners are being cruel and don't want to protect kids, etc.
Only viewed a game behind the net once. My brother had a business connection with Rocky Roe and got a couple tickets from him early in the 1984 world championship season. Roe was umping the plate. Seats were behind the plate.
View was not obstructed but the feel and magic of being "at the game" certainly was.
Folks often mention that they would rather watch a game at home on their 188" television as it is a better seat than any they could buy at the stadium. Plus beer is way cheaper.
Netting throughout the stadium would only strengthen that argument and attendance would suffer.
Not my problem I guess, but then most of the stuff we debate here isn't either.
@Coinstartled said:
Only viewed a game behind the net once. My brother had a business connection with Rocky Roe and got a couple tickets from him early in the 1984 world championship season. Roe was umping the plate. Seats were behind the plate.
View was not obstructed but the feel and magic of being "at the game" certainly was.
Folks often mention that they would rather watch a game at home on their 188" television as it is a better seat than any they could buy at the stadium. Plus beer is way cheaper.
Netting throughout the stadium would only strengthen that argument and attendance would suffer.
Not my problem I guess, but then most of the stuff we debate here isn't either.
Certainly those who say these nets aren't obstructive are only deluding themselves.
The nets are obstructive, it's not even debatable, and the nets as done in Japan without question interfere with the full intended enjoyment of the game.
In my view, any nets equivalent to those in Japan will interfere with my enjoyment of the game to the point whereby I may no longer sit in those seats. I don't particularly like sitting in the outfield seats, but i would probably choose that. I never sit in upper deck seats - those I cannot tolerate.
And not sure why the do gooders want to exempt the outfield. I am not adept at fielding a four hundred foot slam by Aaron Judge. It is more likely to bounce off my forehead than get cleanly caught.
@Coinstartled said:
And not sure why the do gooders want to exempt the outfield. I am not adept at fielding a four hundred foot slam by Aaron Judge. It is more likely to bounce off my forehead than get cleanly caught.
@Coinstartled said:
And not sure why the do gooders want to exempt the outfield. I am not adept at fielding a four hundred foot slam by Aaron Judge. It is more likely to bounce off my forehead than get cleanly caught.
I was at a Cleveland Indians game last week, we sat in Section 138 and my seat was almost even with the start of the outfield grass. the net was visible over the entire infield and if I said it didn't spoil it a little I'd be lying. I got used to it, but at 64 and needing glasses I had to use them the whole game because looking through the screen made everything blurry.
I have an advantage, though. I actually go to watch the game and rarely take my eyes of the ball/field when play is underway.
there was one interesting foul ball. it was a high pop about two sections to my right down the line that looked like it would make the upper deck. it did, but only by a row or two. then it suddenly made its way down to the lower deck. fortunately, everyone was paying attention and an alert fan caught a souvenir.
@keets said:
I can't understand why compassion for a child struck by a foul ball and being irritated about more netting need to be mutually exclusive of each other. some seem to be saying that if my feeling is people need to pay attention that I'm a heel. why is that?? things happen around me all day because people aren't paying attention to what they're doing or to what's happening around them. ever been sitting behind someone at a stop-light that turns green?? most cars start going, except the one's with people who are on their cell phones. it happened to me just the other day.
as a parent, taking a young child to a ballgame entails some responsibility.
ever been to a game and wonder why some people are even there?? they are either playing on their phone, talking constantly to the people around them, drunk or so young that they are incapable of protecting themselves. maybe there should be a special section for those fans which will allow people like me(who are there to enjoy the game) to enjoy the game. more nets won't stop this from happening. it may make it happen less often, but it will still happen. trouble is always brewing whenever people are involved.
we are entrenched in the Age of the Victim where anything negative that takes place is always someone else's fault. I certainly hope the child struck by the ball recovers fully, the parents need to be held accountable.
Because as has been repeatedly pointed out, "paying attention" is not necessarily the problem. There are a billion things that can cause you to not see a ball immediately. Or the ball can deflect. It can sometimes simply be impossible to move. PLAYERS get hit. It's not reasonable to expect fans to somehow move when players themselves get hit.
And, again, we're talking about something (fans hit by foul balls) that is more common than an HBP. Something that happens more often than not, not a one in a billion lightning strike on a unicorn.
@keets said:
I can't understand why compassion for a child struck by a foul ball and being irritated about more netting need to be mutually exclusive of each other. some seem to be saying that if my feeling is people need to pay attention that I'm a heel. why is that?? things happen around me all day because people aren't paying attention to what they're doing or to what's happening around them. ever been sitting behind someone at a stop-light that turns green?? most cars start going, except the one's with people who are on their cell phones. it happened to me just the other day.
as a parent, taking a young child to a ballgame entails some responsibility.
ever been to a game and wonder why some people are even there?? they are either playing on their phone, talking constantly to the people around them, drunk or so young that they are incapable of protecting themselves. maybe there should be a special section for those fans which will allow people like me(who are there to enjoy the game) to enjoy the game. more nets won't stop this from happening. it may make it happen less often, but it will still happen. trouble is always brewing whenever people are involved.
we are entrenched in the Age of the Victim where anything negative that takes place is always someone else's fault. I certainly hope the child struck by the ball recovers fully, the parents need to be held accountable.
Because as has been repeatedly pointed out, "paying attention" is not necessarily the problem. There are a billion things that can cause you to not see a ball immediately. Or the ball can deflect. It can sometimes simply be impossible to move. PLAYERS get hit. It's not reasonable to expect fans to somehow move when players themselves get hit.
And, again, we're talking about something (fans hit by foul balls) that is more common than an HBP. Something that happens more often than not, not a one in a billion lightning strike on a unicorn.
Eight years ago Josh Hamilton tossed a ball up to an out filed fan. Reaching over he fell and died. His kid was with him. It was tragic. Humans are fragile and life is risky. Several years ago the large apartment complex where I lived removed the diving board from the pool. Many people enjoyed it. Never saw anyone get injured. insurers wanted $1000 extra to keep it so the owners removed it.
I cannot imagine that of the 75,000,000 fan visits to MLB parks, more than a couple leave with an injury worse than a sprained wrist or bump on the noggin. At least from a baseball or piece of bat that lands in the stands.
To cage in an entire venue and make the place seem like a death cage is insane. Really and truly insane. Visits are voluntary and those that fear their shadows should probably stay home anyway.
Aren't most foul balls that go in the stands pop ups or at least "arch" high enough to over the net? Since hard line drives are pretty much non-catchable then I see no problem with at least some netting.
@keets said:
back in the 90's Albert Belle was getting heckled by a fan, he raced towards him and drilled the guy dead center in the chest. true story!!
beware the batted ball, the thrown ball isn't really a danger.
Ah yes, the Dennis Rodman of baseball as I loved to call him back in that day.
That's right. To heck with the enjoyment of the fans watching the game. MLB owners want their patrons focused on placing the next prop bet on the kiosk.
I didn't read through this thread. I hate thinking about kids getting hurt. I know not everybody on this board likes Jim Rice. He was my favorite player, and not just because of him saving a young fans life. ( Look it up if you don't know the story).
Anyway, I was at a game last summer at Fenway with my then 10 year old son. If anyone knows Fenway, we were sitting 3rd Base line far enough back to be under the overhead seats in case of rain. The people to my right and one row in front of me had season tickets and said they are there at almost every game. The woman to my right was talking to me about the possibility of catching a foul ball. She said it's been years since one had come to their section but you always have to be vigilant.
Well.....I wasn't paying attention for a split second. Looked down for some reason. I didn't see the swing of the hit, but I heard the whiz of the ball. Looked up. It was coming straight for us at a speed of seemingly 100 miles per hour. It was no more than ten feet away. Was either going to hit my son to my left, who was not reacting, or the teen in front of him. I stuck up my hand to get it, but so did the father in front of me. It hit his hand right before it hit his son, who was going to get hit-not my boy as it turned out. A little kid got the souvenir after it bounced off this man's hand. He said with some seriousness he thought his hand was broken. We all talked about them needing more nets. And.....I didn't take my eyes off the action again.
@thisistheshow said:
Well.....I wasn't paying attention for a split second. Looked down for some reason. I didn't see the swing of the hit, but I heard the whiz of the ball. Looked up. It was coming straight for us at a speed of seemingly 100 miles per hour. It was no more than ten feet away. Was either going to hit my son to my left, who was not reacting, or the teen in front of him. I stuck up my hand to get it, but so did the father in front of me. It hit his hand right before it hit his son, who was going to get hit-not my boy as it turned out. A little kid got the souvenir after it bounced off this man's hand. He said with some seriousness he thought his hand was broken. We all talked about them needing more nets. And.....I didn't take my eyes off the action again.
And this is why I think nets are needed. I don't think "you can absolutely positively never ever look down or away" is not a reasonable standard. That means never sneezing. Never having the guy next to you spill on you. Never getting a cramp. And so on. That's just not a reasonable expectation.
Incidentally, the Nationals have also said they'll extend nets out to the foul poles.
@keets said:
I can't understand why compassion for a child struck by a foul ball and being irritated about more netting need to be mutually exclusive of each other. some seem to be saying that if my feeling is people need to pay attention that I'm a heel. why is that?? things happen around me all day because people aren't paying attention to what they're doing or to what's happening around them. ever been sitting behind someone at a stop-light that turns green?? most cars start going, except the one's with people who are on their cell phones. it happened to me just the other day.
as a parent, taking a young child to a ballgame entails some responsibility.
ever been to a game and wonder why some people are even there?? they are either playing on their phone, talking constantly to the people around them, drunk or so young that they are incapable of protecting themselves. maybe there should be a special section for those fans which will allow people like me(who are there to enjoy the game) to enjoy the game. more nets won't stop this from happening. it may make it happen less often, but it will still happen. trouble is always brewing whenever people are involved.
we are entrenched in the Age of the Victim where anything negative that takes place is always someone else's fault. I certainly hope the child struck by the ball recovers fully, the parents need to be held accountable.
I agree with you. People do not want to pay attention any more.
When I went to games with my children, brought my glove and YES paid attention to what was going on. Especially when we had seats where foul balls were often hit. Explained it to them as well "watch out!". I also didn't take them to the games when they were too young, baseball is often a slow game to watch and until they got a little older, I didn't think any of us would have much fun.
You can't even get people to put there phones down while driving for goodness sake!
@grote15 said:
I recommend all Philly fans be strategically seated in sections where it's been sabremetrically proven the most line drives are hit and that they are distracted as much as possible throughout each game.
Philly fans are tough. We can catch line drives with our teeth. If you see a MLB game used baseball being sold on Ebay and notice bite marks on the pic, chances are it was caught by a Phillies fan.
That explains a LOT ;-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I agree with you. People do not want to pay attention any more.
You suppose anybody that's paying attention has ever been hit?
You're in a lower box seat, you're paying attention. To your left is the bar divider for your "box". There's another in front of you. To your right is your companion. Mike Trout just hit a screamer in your direction. You're 6'5". Where do you go?
But wait...you were quick enough to move your head to the right. Except the ball hits the divider bar and deflects into you. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
Or...
You're paying perfect attention and see a screamer headed your way, so you duck. Except the guy to your left reaches out to catch the ball - and misses. All he does is deflect it down. Right into your head. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
And so on.
It ain't just about protecting "idiots who don't pay attention" from themselves. It's about accounting for things outside of your control and reducing unnecessary risk. Sneezing at the wrong time shouldn't result in a trip to the hospital. The guy next to you shouldn't be able to knock you unconscious with a poorly-timed stab at a foul ball. Throwing up your hands to protect yourself shouldn't result in your death because a foul ball deflected on its way to you.
For the record, I guarantee you didn't pay attention nearly as closely as you think you did when you had your kids with you. I'm sure you were vigilant and you made a specific effort to pay attention - of that, I have absolutely no doubt. But I guarantee there were multiple times when you were distracted.
Also, add the Dodgers to the list of teams that are expanding their nettings.
I agree with you. People do not want to pay attention any more.
You suppose anybody that's paying attention has ever been hit?
You're in a lower box seat, you're paying attention. To your left is the bar divider for your "box". There's another in front of you. To your right is your companion. Mike Trout just hit a screamer in your direction. You're 6'5". Where do you go?
But wait...you were quick enough to move your head to the right. Except the ball hits the divider bar and deflects into you. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
Or...
You're paying perfect attention and see a screamer headed your way, so you duck. Except the guy to your left reaches out to catch the ball - and misses. All he does is deflect it down. Right into your head. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
And so on.
It ain't just about protecting "idiots who don't pay attention" from themselves. It's about accounting for things outside of your control and reducing unnecessary risk. Sneezing at the wrong time shouldn't result in a trip to the hospital. The guy next to you shouldn't be able to knock you unconscious with a poorly-timed stab at a foul ball. Throwing up your hands to protect yourself shouldn't result in your death because a foul ball deflected on its way to you.
For the record, I guarantee you didn't pay attention nearly as closely as you think you did when you had your kids with you. I'm sure you were vigilant and you made a specific effort to pay attention - of that, I have absolutely no doubt. But I guarantee there were multiple times when you were distracted.
Also, add the Dodgers to the list of teams that are expanding their nettings.
Going to sporting events have a small amount of danger, perhaps we should dome the entire playing field and erect walls so that spectators cannot fall from stands.
As far as watching out for my kids, I can guarantee you I did. I paid attention and would have done everything I could to protect them if a ball came our way. Yes it might not have been enough and they could have been hit.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Played softball all summer long when I was in my mid teens. Football as well and basketball a couple times a week in my thirties. Had a pitched ball lined back to my mouth. Got my knee twisted at football and was on crutches a couple of days. Plenty of elbows to the head and face in basketball. Once clipped a runners heel in a 5 mile race and ended up on the ground. Thought I paralyzed myself one afternoon at the gym dead lifting more weight that was reasonable.
Of course all of that could have been avoided by sitting on my arse and eating nachos and calzones. Life carries risk and I still get on my trek each day dodging high speed objects.
Sure one in a million folks at a ball park may get hit by a ball and break a wrist or end up with a bruised noggin. Eventually someone will get killed I supposed. but that happens at one of the Disney parks every couple of year.
To truly sanitize the MLB experience, tarp over all of the seats and make it a television only experience as driving to the park and back (as I noted in an earlier post) is the greatest threat of all.
Injuries are a major source of childhood emergency department and hospital admissions. The most recent accident statistics from the National Safety Council, the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, and other sources tell us that:
Injury is the leading cause of death in children and young adults. According to the CDC, approximately 12,000 children and young adults, ages 1 to 19 years, die from unintentional injuries each year.
Falls are the leading cause of nonfatal injury for children. Children ages 19 and under account for about 8,000 fall-related visits to hospital emergency rooms every day.
Each year about 100 children are killed and 254,000 are injured as a result of bicycle-related accidents.
Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4. The majority of drownings and near-drownings occur in residential swimming pools and in open water sites. However, children can drown in as little as one inch of water.
Airway obstruction injury (suffocation) is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among infants under age 1.
Each year, about 2,000 children ages 14 and under die as a result of a home injury. Unintentional home injury deaths to children are caused primarily by fire and burns, suffocation, drowning, firearms, falls, choking, and poisoning.
Perhaps more attention in society should be placed on situations which are considerably far more dangerous than a kid sitting in the stands of a baseball game.
Rather than diminishing or ruining the MLB game experience for adult fans.
I haven't sat in a "cheap seat" at the ballpark in a very long time. And I'm not going to sit and watch a ballgame with a damn net in front of my view, that's for sure. Others can do as they please.
@Coinstartled said:
Played softball all summer long when I was in my mid teens. Football as well and basketball a couple times a week in my thirties. Had a pitched ball lined back to my mouth. Got my knee twisted at football and was on crutches a couple of days. Plenty of elbows to the head and face in basketball. Once clipped a runners heel in a 5 mile race and ended up on the ground. Thought I paralyzed myself one afternoon at the gym dead lifting more weight that was reasonable.
Of course all of that could have been avoided by sitting on my arse and eating nachos and calzones. Life carries risk and I still get on my trek each day dodging high speed objects.
Sure one in a million folks at a ball park may get hit by a ball and break a wrist or end up with a bruised noggin. Eventually someone will get killed I supposed. but that happens at one of the Disney parks every couple of year.
@Coinstartled said:
Played softball all summer long when I was in my mid teens. Football as well and basketball a couple times a week in my thirties. Had a pitched ball lined back to my mouth. Got my knee twisted at football and was on crutches a couple of days. Plenty of elbows to the head and face in basketball. Once clipped a runners heel in a 5 mile race and ended up on the ground. Thought I paralyzed myself one afternoon at the gym dead lifting more weight that was reasonable.
Of course all of that could have been avoided by sitting on my arse and eating nachos and calzones. Life carries risk and I still get on my trek each day dodging high speed objects.
Sure one in a million folks at a ball park may get hit by a ball and break a wrist or end up with a bruised noggin. Eventually someone will get killed I supposed. but that happens at one of the Disney parks every couple of year.
Someone already was killed at a Dodgers game.
One death in 50 years. A billion and a half seats have been sold in half a century and one unfortunate tragedy is worthy of ruining the game for a dedicated group of fans that don't want to view the event from an obstructed seat.
@Tabe said:
So you guys that are against nets, why are you not advocating for their removal behind home plate?
So you guys that are for nets, why are you not advocating for their implementation in the stratosphere to keep meteors out?
That's a good idea. Whenever I'm outside, i'm constantly looking up in the sky to make sure I can duck in time in case I see a meteor coming at me. With the new stratosphere nets, I could relax a little bit. 😳
Putting a probability number on the chances of being hit by a space rock is difficult, since the events are so rare. Still, Tulane University earth sciences professor Stephen A. Nelson published a paper in 2014 that made the effort. He put the lifetime odds of dying from a local meteorite, asteroid, or comet impact at 1 in 1,600,000.
Compared with 1 in 90 for a car accident, 1 in 250 for a fire, 1 in 60,000 for a tornado, 1 in 135,000 for lightning, 1 in 8 million for a shark attack, or 1 in 195 million for winning the PowerBall lottery.
Nelson put the risk of dying from a large, global asteroid or comet impact at 1 in 75,000. If that seems surprisingly high, it's because when massive objects have hit the Earth in the geologic past, they have wiped out millions of organisms, even whole species. Most of the creatures aren't killed from the direct impact, but from the aftereffects, which include heat, radiation, and dust that clouds out the sun.
Astronomer Alan Harris made a similar calculation, finding that a human being has a 1 in 700,000 chance of getting killed by an impact from space in their lifetime, with most of the risk coming from a large-scale event.
It is a huge mistake to exempt the outfield from the netting as home runs are up this year and in certain parks opposing home runs are often tossed back onto the field putting the players at risk.
It would be especially fun though to see those homers slam into the netting and bounce back towards the outfielders. Game would be finished.
I was at a game in Cleveland when a ball bounced off the head of Jose Canseco and went over the fence for a Homerun. nobody ever suggested that the players needed to wear protection.
@keets said:
I was at a game in Cleveland when a ball bounced off the head of Jose Canseco and went over the fence for a Homerun. nobody ever suggested that the players needed to wear protection.
Comments
I guess I was playing Ring around the Rosie earlier.
Geordie, I’m curious as to what purpose you show up and post for nowadays?
- because I can. I have the same posting privileges here that you do. I also have different priorities in life, and posting on message boards isn't high on the list these days. I rarely post on FCB, either - used to check in several times a day.
I sincerely can’t remember the last time you actually posted anything about Sports that was just “Sports” and not social injustice or crying about the newest thing that all the liberals are up in arms about like this netting thing.
- there's no requirement that I post about "just 'sports'" or a team or a player. There's no requirement that I post about things you like or agree with. That same lack of requirements is enjoyed by everyone here.
Honest question, do you secretly like stirring the pot up here?
- honest answer: no. I get zero effing enjoyment out of being in bitter opposition to people I once respected a hell of a lot more back in the day than I do now. My social conscience as it relates to sports and people in the sports world is looked on with disdain and contempt by a great many here, and yes, that's troubling to me. But when the topic comes up, as it did with spectacular results in the "is Kaepernick a jerk?" thread, I have as much a right to air my opinions as y'all. It's not a requirement for us to agree on those kinds of things. I have done my best to speak with respect and context, but that's not good enough for some. Dry-hump Old Glory, or you're un-American. Stand at attention with tears running down your face while you belt out the Anthem in front of your couch before a game, or you're not a true patriot. Sorry, Paul, that's not me, not even when I was a card-carrying member of the "right".
Whatever. I'll chime in when I see fit. As before, if you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, comment or move along - idgaf which you choose anymore.
To close - I posted this without a single thought about social justice or baying with the liberal mob about the need for nets. I love baseball and love the fan experience and interaction with the game. It should hurt all of us that a little girl got hit, which I think it does. Nets, in my opinion (and others) are an inexpensive and unobtrusive way to keep fans safer (note: not entirely safe, but safer) from line drives and flying bats. But then the discussion devolved, as it often seems to do around here, about snowflakes and liberals and pussies, as if people that disagree with each other have to be reduced to labels and terms of contempt. That, if anything, keeps me from posting more - how 'bout that for an answer as to why I don't post more about "just 'sports'", Paul?
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I would bet that the vast majority of fans are unaware that that warning is even there. You're not required to acknowledge it to buy tickets and not all versions of tickets include the warning. In general, such passive "agreements" are not considered binding. Baseball, however, has long had exceptions made for it that other industries do not get.
Ok I was really just curious, most of the people that post here are actively rooting for a team or teams and I haven’t seen you do that in awhile, in fact I don’t think I’ve seen you post much after the Kap is a scumbag...err excuse me...is he a jerk thread. I didn’t say anything was a requirement nor would I suggest anything of the sort since I’m not a Mod and don’t really care either way, again I just didn’t know why you bother logging in to CU sports talk if your not ever talking about your specific team or sport but whatever thanks for answering and your 100% correct that you can do as you chose and I Really DGAF. Nothing personal at the end of the day, I don’t care either way how you feel about me but I will say that I know your a good guy Geordie.
Dodger Dogs too. Big enough to be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands.
Compromise. Net off a family section...offer a free hot dog and root beer to the kids. leave the rest of the stadium alone.
That's far too rational. By the tone of the title, this thread was started to beat you into obedience by offering a victim no one could object to and the "only possible" solution, not allow offers of any compromise solutions.
I recommend all Philly fans be strategically seated in sections where it's been sabremetrically proven the most line drives are hit and that they are distracted as much as possible throughout each game.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I can't understand why compassion for a child struck by a foul ball and being irritated about more netting need to be mutually exclusive of each other. some seem to be saying that if my feeling is people need to pay attention that I'm a heel. why is that?? things happen around me all day because people aren't paying attention to what they're doing or to what's happening around them. ever been sitting behind someone at a stop-light that turns green?? most cars start going, except the one's with people who are on their cell phones. it happened to me just the other day.
as a parent, taking a young child to a ballgame entails some responsibility.
ever been to a game and wonder why some people are even there?? they are either playing on their phone, talking constantly to the people around them, drunk or so young that they are incapable of protecting themselves. maybe there should be a special section for those fans which will allow people like me(who are there to enjoy the game) to enjoy the game. more nets won't stop this from happening. it may make it happen less often, but it will still happen. trouble is always brewing whenever people are involved.
we are entrenched in the Age of the Victim where anything negative that takes place is always someone else's fault. I certainly hope the child struck by the ball recovers fully, the parents need to be held accountable.
Awesome post keets. Age Of The Victim for sure.
That poor kids parents choice put her in that position. But regardless of this debate, we are going to get ugly obtrusive netting shoved up our ass without a choice.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Philly fans are tough. We can catch line drives with our teeth. If you see a MLB game used baseball being sold on Ebay and notice bite marks on the pic, chances are it was caught by a Phillies fan.
I've been thinking about this some more and unfortunately you are probably right.
MLB owners don't want some snowflake news media narrative out there that says MLB owners are being cruel and don't want to protect kids, etc.
Only viewed a game behind the net once. My brother had a business connection with Rocky Roe and got a couple tickets from him early in the 1984 world championship season. Roe was umping the plate. Seats were behind the plate.
View was not obstructed but the feel and magic of being "at the game" certainly was.
Folks often mention that they would rather watch a game at home on their 188" television as it is a better seat than any they could buy at the stadium. Plus beer is way cheaper.
Netting throughout the stadium would only strengthen that argument and attendance would suffer.
Not my problem I guess, but then most of the stuff we debate here isn't either.
Certainly those who say these nets aren't obstructive are only deluding themselves.
The nets are obstructive, it's not even debatable, and the nets as done in Japan without question interfere with the full intended enjoyment of the game.
In my view, any nets equivalent to those in Japan will interfere with my enjoyment of the game to the point whereby I may no longer sit in those seats. I don't particularly like sitting in the outfield seats, but i would probably choose that. I never sit in upper deck seats - those I cannot tolerate.
And not sure why the do gooders want to exempt the outfield. I am not adept at fielding a four hundred foot slam by Aaron Judge. It is more likely to bounce off my forehead than get cleanly caught.
450 feet. Let’s keep it real.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The "Mick" hit them farther than that.
Where is that clip of the guy beating the dead horse? Give it a rest guys! GEEZE!
I was at a Cleveland Indians game last week, we sat in Section 138 and my seat was almost even with the start of the outfield grass. the net was visible over the entire infield and if I said it didn't spoil it a little I'd be lying. I got used to it, but at 64 and needing glasses I had to use them the whole game because looking through the screen made everything blurry.
I have an advantage, though. I actually go to watch the game and rarely take my eyes of the ball/field when play is underway.
there was one interesting foul ball. it was a high pop about two sections to my right down the line that looked like it would make the upper deck. it did, but only by a row or two. then it suddenly made its way down to the lower deck. fortunately, everyone was paying attention and an alert fan caught a souvenir.
You know the rules, Jon. Can't show the horse before the 200th post.
I wasn't aware of that rule.
Because as has been repeatedly pointed out, "paying attention" is not necessarily the problem. There are a billion things that can cause you to not see a ball immediately. Or the ball can deflect. It can sometimes simply be impossible to move. PLAYERS get hit. It's not reasonable to expect fans to somehow move when players themselves get hit.
And, again, we're talking about something (fans hit by foul balls) that is more common than an HBP. Something that happens more often than not, not a one in a billion lightning strike on a unicorn.
Eight years ago Josh Hamilton tossed a ball up to an out filed fan. Reaching over he fell and died. His kid was with him. It was tragic. Humans are fragile and life is risky. Several years ago the large apartment complex where I lived removed the diving board from the pool. Many people enjoyed it. Never saw anyone get injured. insurers wanted $1000 extra to keep it so the owners removed it.
I cannot imagine that of the 75,000,000 fan visits to MLB parks, more than a couple leave with an injury worse than a sprained wrist or bump on the noggin. At least from a baseball or piece of bat that lands in the stands.
To cage in an entire venue and make the place seem like a death cage is insane. Really and truly insane. Visits are voluntary and those that fear their shadows should probably stay home anyway.
back in the 90's Albert Bell was getting heckled by a fan, he raced towards him and drilled the guy dead center in the chest. true story!!
beware the batted ball, the thrown ball isn't really a danger.
Denny McClain once threw a heater into the stands.
He was (is) an interesting fellow.
Aren't most foul balls that go in the stands pop ups or at least "arch" high enough to over the net? Since hard line drives are pretty much non-catchable then I see no problem with at least some netting.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
Ah yes, the Dennis Rodman of baseball as I loved to call him back in that day.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
The Chicago White Sox have announced they'll extend their nets all the way to the foul poles. This season ASAP.
https://sports.yahoo.com/white-sox-extend-protective-netting-195445616.html
That's right. To heck with the enjoyment of the fans watching the game. MLB owners want their patrons focused on placing the next prop bet on the kiosk.
We attend Minor League games. Wonder when this plan will cascade down to that level.
I didn't read through this thread. I hate thinking about kids getting hurt. I know not everybody on this board likes Jim Rice. He was my favorite player, and not just because of him saving a young fans life. ( Look it up if you don't know the story).
Edit to add here's the Rice story
https://youtu.be/kW4NkJsgyuw
Anyway, I was at a game last summer at Fenway with my then 10 year old son. If anyone knows Fenway, we were sitting 3rd Base line far enough back to be under the overhead seats in case of rain. The people to my right and one row in front of me had season tickets and said they are there at almost every game. The woman to my right was talking to me about the possibility of catching a foul ball. She said it's been years since one had come to their section but you always have to be vigilant.
Well.....I wasn't paying attention for a split second. Looked down for some reason. I didn't see the swing of the hit, but I heard the whiz of the ball. Looked up. It was coming straight for us at a speed of seemingly 100 miles per hour. It was no more than ten feet away. Was either going to hit my son to my left, who was not reacting, or the teen in front of him. I stuck up my hand to get it, but so did the father in front of me. It hit his hand right before it hit his son, who was going to get hit-not my boy as it turned out. A little kid got the souvenir after it bounced off this man's hand. He said with some seriousness he thought his hand was broken. We all talked about them needing more nets. And.....I didn't take my eyes off the action again.
And this is why I think nets are needed. I don't think "you can absolutely positively never ever look down or away" is not a reasonable standard. That means never sneezing. Never having the guy next to you spill on you. Never getting a cramp. And so on. That's just not a reasonable expectation.
Incidentally, the Nationals have also said they'll extend nets out to the foul poles.
I agree with you. People do not want to pay attention any more.
When I went to games with my children, brought my glove and YES paid attention to what was going on. Especially when we had seats where foul balls were often hit. Explained it to them as well "watch out!". I also didn't take them to the games when they were too young, baseball is often a slow game to watch and until they got a little older, I didn't think any of us would have much fun.
You can't even get people to put there phones down while driving for goodness sake!
That explains a LOT ;-)
You suppose anybody that's paying attention has ever been hit?
You're in a lower box seat, you're paying attention. To your left is the bar divider for your "box". There's another in front of you. To your right is your companion. Mike Trout just hit a screamer in your direction. You're 6'5". Where do you go?
But wait...you were quick enough to move your head to the right. Except the ball hits the divider bar and deflects into you. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
Or...
You're paying perfect attention and see a screamer headed your way, so you duck. Except the guy to your left reaches out to catch the ball - and misses. All he does is deflect it down. Right into your head. And now you're severely injured even though you were paying attention.
And so on.
It ain't just about protecting "idiots who don't pay attention" from themselves. It's about accounting for things outside of your control and reducing unnecessary risk. Sneezing at the wrong time shouldn't result in a trip to the hospital. The guy next to you shouldn't be able to knock you unconscious with a poorly-timed stab at a foul ball. Throwing up your hands to protect yourself shouldn't result in your death because a foul ball deflected on its way to you.
For the record, I guarantee you didn't pay attention nearly as closely as you think you did when you had your kids with you. I'm sure you were vigilant and you made a specific effort to pay attention - of that, I have absolutely no doubt. But I guarantee there were multiple times when you were distracted.
Also, add the Dodgers to the list of teams that are expanding their nettings.
This netting craze will change the dynamic of more desirable $ seats. I have no desire sit impeded from the game by this crap.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Going to sporting events have a small amount of danger, perhaps we should dome the entire playing field and erect walls so that spectators cannot fall from stands.
As far as watching out for my kids, I can guarantee you I did. I paid attention and would have done everything I could to protect them if a ball came our way. Yes it might not have been enough and they could have been hit.
Played softball all summer long when I was in my mid teens. Football as well and basketball a couple times a week in my thirties. Had a pitched ball lined back to my mouth. Got my knee twisted at football and was on crutches a couple of days. Plenty of elbows to the head and face in basketball. Once clipped a runners heel in a 5 mile race and ended up on the ground. Thought I paralyzed myself one afternoon at the gym dead lifting more weight that was reasonable.
Of course all of that could have been avoided by sitting on my arse and eating nachos and calzones. Life carries risk and I still get on my trek each day dodging high speed objects.
Sure one in a million folks at a ball park may get hit by a ball and break a wrist or end up with a bruised noggin. Eventually someone will get killed I supposed. but that happens at one of the Disney parks every couple of year.
To truly sanitize the MLB experience, tarp over all of the seats and make it a television only experience as driving to the park and back (as I noted in an earlier post) is the greatest threat of all.
Pasted from: Stanford Children's Health
Accident Statistics
Injuries are a major source of childhood emergency department and hospital admissions. The most recent accident statistics from the National Safety Council, the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, and other sources tell us that:
Injury is the leading cause of death in children and young adults. According to the CDC, approximately 12,000 children and young adults, ages 1 to 19 years, die from unintentional injuries each year.
Falls are the leading cause of nonfatal injury for children. Children ages 19 and under account for about 8,000 fall-related visits to hospital emergency rooms every day.
Each year about 100 children are killed and 254,000 are injured as a result of bicycle-related accidents.
Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4. The majority of drownings and near-drownings occur in residential swimming pools and in open water sites. However, children can drown in as little as one inch of water.
Airway obstruction injury (suffocation) is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among infants under age 1.
Each year, about 2,000 children ages 14 and under die as a result of a home injury. Unintentional home injury deaths to children are caused primarily by fire and burns, suffocation, drowning, firearms, falls, choking, and poisoning.
Perhaps more attention in society should be placed on situations which are considerably far more dangerous than a kid sitting in the stands of a baseball game.
Rather than diminishing or ruining the MLB game experience for adult fans.
I haven't sat in a "cheap seat" at the ballpark in a very long time. And I'm not going to sit and watch a ballgame with a damn net in front of my view, that's for sure. Others can do as they please.
Someone already was killed at a Dodgers game.
So you guys that are against nets, why are you not advocating for their removal behind home plate?
Now you are just being silly.
So you guys that are for nets, why are you not advocating for their implementation in the stratosphere to keep meteors out?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
One death in 50 years. A billion and a half seats have been sold in half a century and one unfortunate tragedy is worthy of ruining the game for a dedicated group of fans that don't want to view the event from an obstructed seat.
That's a good idea. Whenever I'm outside, i'm constantly looking up in the sky to make sure I can duck in time in case I see a meteor coming at me. With the new stratosphere nets, I could relax a little bit. 😳
Pasted from: National Geographic:
Doing the Math: Meteorite Strikes
Putting a probability number on the chances of being hit by a space rock is difficult, since the events are so rare. Still, Tulane University earth sciences professor Stephen A. Nelson published a paper in 2014 that made the effort. He put the lifetime odds of dying from a local meteorite, asteroid, or comet impact at 1 in 1,600,000.
Compared with 1 in 90 for a car accident, 1 in 250 for a fire, 1 in 60,000 for a tornado, 1 in 135,000 for lightning, 1 in 8 million for a shark attack, or 1 in 195 million for winning the PowerBall lottery.
Nelson put the risk of dying from a large, global asteroid or comet impact at 1 in 75,000. If that seems surprisingly high, it's because when massive objects have hit the Earth in the geologic past, they have wiped out millions of organisms, even whole species. Most of the creatures aren't killed from the direct impact, but from the aftereffects, which include heat, radiation, and dust that clouds out the sun.
Astronomer Alan Harris made a similar calculation, finding that a human being has a 1 in 700,000 chance of getting killed by an impact from space in their lifetime, with most of the risk coming from a large-scale event.
It is a huge mistake to exempt the outfield from the netting as home runs are up this year and in certain parks opposing home runs are often tossed back onto the field putting the players at risk.
It would be especially fun though to see those homers slam into the netting and bounce back towards the outfielders. Game would be finished.
Good enough.
Using a nerf ball instead of a hard ball would solve all the problems.
And if a batter can hit a fly ball with a strong wind blowing out, it could make for some really exciting long home runs.
I was at a game in Cleveland when a ball bounced off the head of Jose Canseco and went over the fence for a Homerun. nobody ever suggested that the players needed to wear protection.
In that instance...the ball needed protection.