Gold Price Discrepancies Apmex vs. Kitco vs. Comex vs other dealers....

jmski52

I've observed about a $3.00/ounce price discrepancy between Apmex vs. Kitco - Apmex being the higher of the two.

Does anyone know what might be going on with that, and does Apmex's price suddenly become lower when the market is going up?

Just askin' to see if anyone knows the details.

OPA

APMEX ask: $1281
Kitco: $1279

I have no idea, but I'm not buying PM's either.

EngelMan

With stocks you have a Bid & Ask price. Same with Gold and Silver.
Kitco is quoting Bid and APMEX is using Ask.

johnny9434

which company are you more comfortable with? that's the way I look at it. jmo

OPA

@EngelMan said:
With stocks you have a Bid & Ask price. Same with Gold and Silver.
Kitco is quoting Bid and APMEX is using Ask.

Not so...suggest you review the post above you...both quotes are for ask....

cohodk

Time of price reporting.

jmski52

I don't believe that a time lag has anything to do with it, so I did a quick research project this morning.

Within the time that it took me to acquire the data, the price moved about $0.80 or less.

For the following sites, spot was listed as:
Kitco - $1,283.8 bid/$1,284.8 ask
Apmex - $1,286.5
Scotsman - $1,284.04

The prices for a single generic 1oz. AGE were shown as follows:
Kitco - buy @$1,273.30, sell @$1,334.80
Apmex - buy@ "request a quote", sell @$1,348.29
Scotsman - buy@$1,277.04, sell @$1,328.04

The pricing and spot quotes were pretty valid within about 1 or 2 minute's time.

Shipping & Insurance costs were not considered.

I know that different dealers will adjust their premiums according to the market and inventory status, so one never expects perfect synchronicity.

My conclusion, from the above data is that Apmex is currently bumping their spot price listing a couple bucks for whatever reason. It also appears clear that Scotsman is running on tighter spreads.

Your thoughts? Your recent experiences?

cmanbb

I've heard that kitco PM pricing is based on paper contracts vs. physical holdings.

jmski52

How would that make their stated spot price higher?

cohodk

Your research did not take place during an active or volatile time period.

The discrepancy you see is 100% due to data feed reporting.

Also, why would you go to a third party for info when you can go right to the source?

jmski52

What feed do you think is more relevant? Comex? I can include that I suppose.

cohodk

@jmski52 said:
What feed do you think is more relevant? Comex? I can include that I suppose.

Yes....but even the free quotes will be delayed 10-15 minutes.

jmski52

even the free quotes will be delayed 10-15 minutes.

So if the prices don't move much in those 15 minutes, you can pretty much assume that the price quotes and buy-sell spreads haven't really change much in the interim.

Any anomalies can be revisited with another sampling.

cohodk

Do Apmex and Scotsman and Kitco all get their data from the same source? How often do they update their prices?

jmski52

Scotsman's and Kitco's representation of the spot price appear to track Comex's most recent June 2019 settled price very closely. Because prices aren't moving very fast today, I can't say for certain if Scotman and Kitco mirror the 10 minute delay at Comex, but it does look like it.

Apmex's banner price for gold still appears to be at least $3.00 higher than the Scotsman, Kitco and Comex prices as noted above - based on multiple checks at different times this afternoon. I don't think that the Comex price has ever reached as high as Apmex's banner price all day today.

The Scotsman buy-sell spread on 1 oz Unc AGEs is tighter than the Kitco spread, and Apmex prefers to keep their bids close to the vest until you request a quote.

I'm glad that we had this little chat.

coinpalice

ampex basis most of their coin prices on current gold and silver prices, so they are just covering for themselves

jmski52

ampex basis most of their coin prices on current gold and silver prices

That isn't what I've just explained. Apmex's "market price" appears to be artificially higher than the market by about $3.00. Do you have some information that isn't apparent here?

jmski52

Closing Prices 6/7/19:

Comex
Gold (Aug): $1,344.90
Silver (July): $15.01
Platinum (July): $802.20

Apmex (spot prices)
Gold: $1,343.40
Silver: $15.01
Platinum: $809.20

Kitco (spot prices)
Gold: $1,339.90 bid/$1,340.90 ask
Silver: $14.97 bid/$15.07 ask
Platinum: $806.00 bid/$811.00 ask

MarketWatch
Gold: $1,345.00
Silver: $15.01

Scotsman Coin
Gold: $1,340,00
Silver: $14.98
Platinum: $804.93

PCGS
Gold: $1,340.70
Silver: $15.02

ITM Trading (live spot prices)
Gold: $1,341.30
Silver: $15.04
Platinum: $809.20

JM Bullion (live spot prices)
Gold: $1,343.05
Silver: $15.09
Platinum: $811.23

Modern Coin Mart (spot prices)
Gold: $1,341.335
Silver: $15.039
Platinum: $809.00

It's going to take a little time to digest this data. At first blush, it simply seems that the various dealers have different sources or their data points are not all taken simultaneously, but it should be noted that this data is posted on the various websites on a Saturday, and should reflect the settled prices from Friday.

I have a hard time believing that the various dealers would factor in their inventory or hedging status into their price indicators for the metals, but maybe it's so.

Does anyone have additional insights?

MsMorrisine

as far as I can find comex is futures only, and outside of fixings there is no easily found spot market for quotes. I wonder where they get them.

jmski52

I would say that Comex futures can be discounted to Net Present Value for a spot price fairly accurately.