@Catbert - I'd say it's yellow. Here's the same coin with a yellow adjustment of +5. However, I did the same amount of adjustment for red (+5 green, +5 yellow) and achieved very similar results.
@Catbert said:
OK. I've seen a red emphasis historically (at least what I perceive as it being that color).
I've heard that as well. Despite what others think, I think that slight shift in color does not actually make a large effect on the image (a minuscule lighting shift will probably make a larger impact).
There are two big issues that keep popping up with TrueViews recently. One is the color is all over the place. They really need to incorporate either a calibration shot periodically or periodically re-do their color calibration in case their lights have shifted colors on them. The other big problem is grossly overexposed images that wash everything out.
A few recent examples of TrueView vs my picture:
I big part of it, I imagine, depends on whether you got Phil or someone else. For example, these are some really great recent TrueViews.
The first submission (4 coins) turned out very dark. It was OK when light levels were adjusted. However, those photos are always associated with the coin in Coin Facts.
TrueView and now plate coin in Coin Facts for this very rare DM.
Light adjusted to be more realistic
TrueView - all shade and no color for a colorfully toned coin
Adjusted TrueView - a colorfully toned coin.
The last three larger submissions (8-19) have been much more accurate.
My best photographs can equal the Trueviews, particularly with copper and gold, but I have difficulty getting silver to appear realistic on a consistent basis. I suspect that I need a better lighting system. What follows are some of my more successful efforts.
PCGS photo - the luster seems flat
Mine is more realistic
@Cocoinut Color calibration is key with silver. It's the least forgiving. I recently (finally) got calibration settings to the point where I can get the color to match reality with relative consistency.
@coins_i_like said: @Cocoinut Color calibration is key with silver. It's the least forgiving. I recently (finally) got calibration settings to the point where I can get the color to match reality with relative consistency.
There's more to color calibration than white balance settings on your camera. Your monitor should also be calibrated. Once it is, then you still have the issue of what the lighting conditions are of the reality you're trying to match (daylight, incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes, sodium vapor lights). If you use a white balance card to adjust the color, then your reality is daylight and the coin should look different on a calibrated display than it does under incandescent light.
Well there are my photos, the PCGS Trueviews , and now the CACG photos (bought a couple CACG coins). So have a number of choices when inputting something into my PCGS Inventory app - nice. For online listing use my photos. Have the right kind of lamp for it. Practice gets me there (close to expert). The PCGS true views awesome.
My contribution ( a pattern struck in copper) ... just one of many I could post. However, I just use a 130$ point and shoot Camera when it is not being used on a vacation : )
Unfortunately, not all TV's are Kodak moments:
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
@coins_i_like said: @Cocoinut Color calibration is key with silver. It's the least forgiving. I recently (finally) got calibration settings to the point where I can get the color to match reality with relative consistency.
There's more to color calibration than white balance settings on your camera. Your monitor should also be calibrated. Once it is, then you still have the issue of what the lighting conditions are of the reality you're trying to match (daylight, incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes, sodium vapor lights). If you use a white balance card to adjust the color, then your reality is daylight and the coin should look different on a calibrated display than it does under incandescent light.
@coins_i_like said: @Cocoinut Color calibration is key with silver. It's the least forgiving. I recently (finally) got calibration settings to the point where I can get the color to match reality with relative consistency.
There's more to color calibration than white balance settings on your camera. Your monitor should also be calibrated. Once it is, then you still have the issue of what the lighting conditions are of the reality you're trying to match (daylight, incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes, sodium vapor lights). If you use a white balance card to adjust the color, then your reality is daylight and the coin should look different on a calibrated display than it does under incandescent light.
Correct.
I agree, and I'll point out that for many years PCGS photography had this figured out. But for some reason, due to volume, lack of caring, or some other reason, the quality of trueview photos is trash.
@Catbert said:
OK. I've seen a red emphasis historically (at least what I perceive as it being that color).
I've heard that as well. Despite what others think, I think that slight shift in color does not actually make a large effect on the image (a minuscule lighting shift will probably make a larger impact).
Did someone say "red emphasis"?
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
@Catbert said:
OK. I've seen a red emphasis historically (at least what I perceive as it being that color).
I've heard that as well. Despite what others think, I think that slight shift in color does not actually make a large effect on the image (a minuscule lighting shift will probably make a larger impact).
I don't know how your coins look in real life, @Coinscratch, but I'd guess that your pictures are a much more accurate representation of them than the TrueViews. I find it difficult to believe that your coins could be as green or orange as the TrueViews are showing.
@coins_i_like said:
I don't know how your coins look in real life, @Coinscratch, but I'd guess that your pictures are a much more accurate representation of them than the TrueViews. I find it difficult to believe that your coins could be as green or orange as the TrueViews are showing.
I would say they fall somewhere between the two. Will post some slab shots later along with another. I'm pretty sure they dip these moderns maybe to see if real toning??? I just know they come back cleaner than they go yet the pic shows true.
So, are they shooting before the cleaning?
You'll see what I mean once I post the before & afters.
Just reshot this one today, got some advice from @Robec and trying out some diffusion with LED lights. I am getting closer to what I want to achieve - getting images that look 'almost' exactly like I see it in hand. For this coin, the vendor images, and the TVs are not what I see in hand. Mine are very close especially the right color of the gold surfaces. Sometimes it is the other way around.
@FullHorn said:
I am sure I spent 100 times longer than PCGS did to try and capture a good pic of this coin. It gave me an appreciation for the
TrueView pictures they deliver. This is the only example I have with a TrueView. It would be interesting to see more examples.
What does airplane nut think? I love that guy- he was just a kid in his teens when he started here. Super great photos.
@robec said:
I have several examples as well. Phil does such an incredible job, especially when you consider he finishes a coin in less than a minute. I'm lucky if I can finish a coin in an hour.
Wow! Your photos are excellent! They won every comparison, IMO. However, some were close, though, which speaks to his skills shooting in under a minute.
It is my understanding that PCGS uses hot lights like floods. When you do this, results can be very limited when it comes to showing luster. I understand why floods might be used. They are the best for efficiency when photographing so many different coins. My photos are much more accurate in this case, where I used 4 LEDs and also shot the coin through the old NGC holder it was in before it upgraded to 67+FB at PCGS.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
It's sad that so many collectors consider a "good" image a "pretty" image. A commitment to "accurate" is nearly nonexistent. Ego is driving the bus. It's just mind boggling how many collectors simply assume a static image is accurate. It's the electronic age. $400 and a computer and one can make most any coin look however "they" want it to. Just dial up the saturation and you can have images just like...well, you know who!
Comments
@FlyingAl re PCGS tendencies - is it yellow or is it red?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@Catbert - I'd say it's yellow. Here's the same coin with a yellow adjustment of +5. However, I did the same amount of adjustment for red (+5 green, +5 yellow) and achieved very similar results.
Coin Photographer.
OK. I've seen a red emphasis historically (at least what I perceive as it being that color).
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I've heard that as well. Despite what others think, I think that slight shift in color does not actually make a large effect on the image (a minuscule lighting shift will probably make a larger impact).
Coin Photographer.
They did have a red bias for years. On some of these newer photos there is more of a yellow.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
There are two big issues that keep popping up with TrueViews recently. One is the color is all over the place. They really need to incorporate either a calibration shot periodically or periodically re-do their color calibration in case their lights have shifted colors on them. The other big problem is grossly overexposed images that wash everything out.
A few recent examples of TrueView vs my picture:
I big part of it, I imagine, depends on whether you got Phil or someone else. For example, these are some really great recent TrueViews.
Some of those TVs are REALLY bad @coins_i_like. I miss Phill already 🙁
The first submission (4 coins) turned out very dark. It was OK when light levels were adjusted. However, those photos are always associated with the coin in Coin Facts.
TrueView and now plate coin in Coin Facts for this very rare DM.
Light adjusted to be more realistic
TrueView - all shade and no color for a colorfully toned coin
Adjusted TrueView - a colorfully toned coin.
The last three larger submissions (8-19) have been much more accurate.
SpudView, taken with iPhone
Trueview
SpudView, taken with iPhone
Trueview
SpudView, taken over 18 years ago with DSLR
Trueview after storing coin over 18 years in a Wayte Raymond Album
Mr_Spud
My best photographs can equal the Trueviews, particularly with copper and gold, but I have difficulty getting silver to appear realistic on a consistent basis. I suspect that I need a better lighting system. What follows are some of my more successful efforts.
PCGS photo - the luster seems flat
Mine is more realistic
PCGS photo - not bad
Mine is better (IMHO)
.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
@Cocoinut Color calibration is key with silver. It's the least forgiving. I recently (finally) got calibration settings to the point where I can get the color to match reality with relative consistency.
There's more to color calibration than white balance settings on your camera. Your monitor should also be calibrated. Once it is, then you still have the issue of what the lighting conditions are of the reality you're trying to match (daylight, incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes, sodium vapor lights). If you use a white balance card to adjust the color, then your reality is daylight and the coin should look different on a calibrated display than it does under incandescent light.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Well there are my photos, the PCGS Trueviews , and now the CACG photos (bought a couple CACG coins). So have a number of choices when inputting something into my PCGS Inventory app - nice. For online listing use my photos. Have the right kind of lamp for it. Practice gets me there (close to expert). The PCGS true views awesome.
My contribution ( a pattern struck in copper) ... just one of many I could post. However, I just use a 130$ point and shoot Camera when it is not being used on a vacation : )
Unfortunately, not all TV's are Kodak moments:
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
Correct.
I agree, and I'll point out that for many years PCGS photography had this figured out. But for some reason, due to volume, lack of caring, or some other reason, the quality of trueview photos is trash.
Did someone say "red emphasis"?
Ah yes, the good old pre-TV Secure Plus scans.
Coin Photographer.
A little yellow maybe but they're way better than mine.
I don't know how your coins look in real life, @Coinscratch, but I'd guess that your pictures are a much more accurate representation of them than the TrueViews. I find it difficult to believe that your coins could be as green or orange as the TrueViews are showing.
I would say they fall somewhere between the two. Will post some slab shots later along with another. I'm pretty sure they dip these moderns maybe to see if real toning??? I just know they come back cleaner than they go yet the pic shows true.
So, are they shooting before the cleaning?
You'll see what I mean once I post the before & afters.
MyView and before submitting.
TrueView
NowView See how the toning is missing on the center areas of the obverse yet still there on the TV...
Just reshot this one today, got some advice from @Robec and trying out some diffusion with LED lights. I am getting closer to what I want to achieve - getting images that look 'almost' exactly like I see it in hand. For this coin, the vendor images, and the TVs are not what I see in hand. Mine are very close especially the right color of the gold surfaces. Sometimes it is the other way around.
TrueView-
My view-
I think I’ll leave it to PCGS for this one.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
What does airplane nut think? I love that guy- he was just a kid in his teens when he started here. Super great photos.
Wow! Your photos are excellent! They won every comparison, IMO. However, some were close, though, which speaks to his skills shooting in under a minute.
Something is wrong here.
It is my understanding that PCGS uses hot lights like floods. When you do this, results can be very limited when it comes to showing luster. I understand why floods might be used. They are the best for efficiency when photographing so many different coins. My photos are much more accurate in this case, where I used 4 LEDs and also shot the coin through the old NGC holder it was in before it upgraded to 67+FB at PCGS.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
This one was easier to shoot than grade 66.
Coloration is important, but less so than axial. I do not like the glamour shots, true in hand is a priority for purchasing.
It's sad that so many collectors consider a "good" image a "pretty" image. A commitment to "accurate" is nearly nonexistent. Ego is driving the bus. It's just mind boggling how many collectors simply assume a static image is accurate. It's the electronic age. $400 and a computer and one can make most any coin look however "they" want it to. Just dial up the saturation and you can have images just like...well, you know who!