Other than being beat up, does this Peace dollar look kind of like a Proof to you?
braddick
Posts: 23,099 ✭✭✭✭✭
Seller's photos and I couldn't get the reverse to enlarge. I know you're not working with a lot. Probably just a decent strike though...
peacockcoins
1
Comments
Nicely struck, but no.
Not that there are many to choose from, but most Proofs are Matte/Sand Blast and that coin doesn’t show any indication of such a finish.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Strike looks almost too good.
Nope. Just properly made, then run over by the 8:15 bus to Tuscon....and the 9:00 to San Antonio....and the 9:10 to Minneapolis....plus a bulldozer or two.
I trust your judgment.
When I get it in hand, I'll attempt better photos.
peacockcoins
I agree with Señor Feldini (which is typically a safe Numismatic Decision) 😁
@Braddick I agree she’s very well-struck.👍
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
The pristine surfaces might have fooled you.
Is that a D or an S?
Since the device fields and the impression are both uniform in tone texture and color I would say no. I don’t see the natural flow lines cartwheel luster needed. Might be pictures but for me no on the proof question. The dark marks around mouth nose and face makes me think it not genuine. Or it was cleaned.
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Bronze Associate member
What Dc said
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Bronze Associate member
Further info Based on the bag marks it looks like not a proof. Here is info
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Bronze Associate member
Look at the rims!
Smitten with DBLCs.
None of this would be relevant to the OP's question. A matte proof or even a brilliant proof of the period would not have device contrast, cameos were not the norm. Also, a mishandled proof would tend to look circulated (or cleaned).
That said, I agree that it is probably not a proof. The reverse looks high relief in that photo.
P mint.
It would be cool to discover it is a High Relief 1922 Peace!
Hey! Part of makes coin collecting fun is hopes and dreams.
peacockcoins
What about the coin, other than the strike, screams proof to you? I don't mean that sarcastically, but I am curious. While the coin has a sharp strike, the lack of flat, squared rims and surfaces look like a business strike example to me.
No, you're right. I am hoping the coin is a bit more matte when it arrives.
peacockcoins
When it arrives, you may want to consider using very strong magnification to look for evidence of doubling, tripling, etc. Given the strike, if there was evidence of doubling, etc., it might have been double/multiple struck in collar.
Photo of a genuine PROOF:
peacockcoins
The pictures look like it has higher than normal relief, especially on the reverse.
But I don't think it actually has high relief - just well struck in the centers.
peacockcoins
Mine on the left. Genuine High Relief on the right:
peacockcoins
Look at the tiara closely to see some differences.
I like your example scars and all.
Just a shame they didn't have seat belts or air bags in 1922
Taking crayons home
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Bronze Associate member
Pat, while it could be the imaging/lighting - though I doubt it - look at how much better defined the letters and numerals appear on the Proof example.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
While not a proof, that coin has retained amazing hair details... and the reverse as well.... too bad about the dings and chatter on the obverse... a really nice Peace Dollar... Cheers, RickO
Say this ain't so!!
I will deferred to the experts on this.
Look at the differences in the first two rays of the tiara. That should clear up any further questions.
No but very well struck. Looks nice but obviously been around.
I've seen two 1922P $1 MS67 CAC that weren't as well struck. Yours was probably an $85K MS68 before @RogerB ran it over.
I sold a 1921 High Relief $1 PCGS MS67 that wasn't as well struck!
But @RogerB never saw it in a parking lot.
Yours is surely exceptional.
Bulk submission grading is recommended.
@MrEureka is in Europe, but has made money on a proof Peace at least a couple of times more than I have, so I'll defer to him. He may know enough to grade it SP61.
Notwithstanding your my japery, an dramatic outlier.
If not a proof it’s one of the best struck 22 peace dollars I’ve seen. I would expect to see some very square rims, but I don’t. The central regions are hammered. I wonder what it looked like before the mule team ran over it?
I vote lighting
Collector, occasional seller
There were two pairs of master hubs for low relief Peace dollars. Relief on the first pair was better defined. These were phased out in May 1922 in favor of ones that gave longer die life. The 1922 trial pieces are identical to the first hubs which were also used for circulation. The OP's coins looks like the #1 obverse - but I cannot tell from the tiny reverse photo. #1 reverse will have a small gap between eagle's talon and end of olive branch. (Note: VAM references have this backward.)
As for proofs: The Breen quote above is so old and confused that it's tough to know what is real and what is imagination. 1st - there were no "matte proof" coins of this issue. All proofs of all versions of the design were made on a medal press and started "life" as "satin proofs." Some were sandblasted at the Philadelphia Mint and are accurately called "sandblast proofs." (See Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921, and 1905-1908, for details photos, etc.)
I had a conversation with Walter in the early 80's on this specific sandblast/matte conflation. I was informed, with an archly raised eyebrow, that while sandblast was a form of manufacture, the French had gotten there first in their development of the technology, and were to be awarded naming rights to the process.
I silently said to myself "Oh-kaaaaaaay" and told him to pass the pipe. Tony abjured but snickered appropriately.
edited to add: It wasn't until ten years later that I understood why I had intuitively wiped the pipe before my hit.
@rogerb I think this is a type 2 hub based upon the "third mountain" here
Collector, occasional seller
Great information all!
Thanks for the updates.
peacockcoins
@braddick
Hope springs eternal. Good luck to you and keep looking.
like a proof cause it is definately round but wow; looks like it laid on a roadway too long. MS64