Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

Looks like Bryce Harper is the new Dave Kingman

Wonder why everybody loves Bryce but didn't give Dave his due. Dave certainly wasn't paid like a super star.

Work hard and you will succeed!!
«13

Comments

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 8:53AM

    Dave "Sky King" Kingman hit 442 Home runs, and he's not in the Hall of Fame. Very controversial subject. Personally, I think he should be in. He also drove in 1210 runs.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No way Kingman is a hall of famer. He was a bad defensive player and drove in 100 runs twice, hitting .236 for his career.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "He hit the front porch of the third house...!"



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭

    Does Harper hate all of humanity like Kingman did? I truly don't know because I don't follow him.

    I love the Mets and liked Kingman when I was a kid but I remember hearing he was giant db.

  • waxman2745waxman2745 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭

    @lawnmowerman said:
    Does Harper hate all of humanity like Kingman did? I truly don't know because I don't follow him.

    I love the Mets and liked Kingman when I was a kid but I remember hearing he was giant db.

    He sent a live rat to a female reporter. Also, he invited all of his teammates to his house for a party, and when they all showed up, he gave the house keys to a teammate and then left.

    Adam
    buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If 442 home runs, and 1210 rbi's isn't good enough for the Hall of Fame, that's just crazy.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dave Kingman was a home run novelty act. Nothing more.

    To illustrate what he did and how much he helped his teams win championships...16 years in the league, 7 different teams, 0 World Series appearances.

    He was only involved in one playoff series where he went a pathetic 1 for 9, and that one hit was a single.

    The book still hasn't been fully written on Bryce Harper. He's only 26 years old.

    Saying "Bryce Harper is the new Dave Kingman" is just plain silly at this point. We shall see around ten years from now.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 9:25AM

    If Kingman had hit just 58 more home runs, he'd be in Cooperstown for sure.

  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭

    Mark McGwire without steroids was Dave Kingman

  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭

    @ArtVandelay said:
    Mark McGwire without steroids was Dave Kingman

    This is my thought as well.

  • georgebailey2georgebailey2 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 2:25PM

    @lawnmowerman said:

    @ArtVandelay said:
    Mark McGwire without steroids was Dave Kingman

    And Sammy Sosa without pigmentation is Mark McGwire

    Still looks vaguely like Sammy Sosa.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    If Kingman had hit just 58 more home runs, he'd be in Cooperstown for sure.

    If Kingman had hit 58 more home runs, Palmeiro wouldn't have been the first player to hit 500 and not be in the HoF. You can't compare Harper to Kingman. Harper has been very good three years and historically great once, but very pedestrian the rest of the time. Kingman's best season is more or less comparable to Harper's 2017. 11th place MVP to 12th. If Harper recovers he'll be a superstar. If he can maintain his 2017, he'll be very good. Even if 2018 is typical Harper going forward, he's not Kingman.

  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dave Kingman is a saint. I hate every single one of you.

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Dave "Sky King" Kingman hit 442 Home runs, and he's not in the Hall of Fame. Very controversial subject.

    I follow baseball fairly closely and this is the first I’ve heard of this controversy. Dave Kingman should not be in the HoF.

  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Dave "Sky King" Kingman hit 442 Home runs, and he's not in the Hall of Fame. Very controversial subject. Personally, I think he should be in. He also drove in 1210 runs.

    Troll. WAR of 17, OPS+ of 117. He would be a first ballot inductee in the a** hole HOF.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GreenSneakers said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Dave "Sky King" Kingman hit 442 Home runs, and he's not in the Hall of Fame. Very controversial subject.

    I follow baseball fairly closely and this is the first I’ve heard of this controversy. Dave Kingman should not be in the HoF.

    I have read about this argument for years. This is definately not the first time I have seen people debate about whether he belongs in the hall.

  • CrazylegsCrazylegs Posts: 406 ✭✭✭

    Kingman was all or nothing.
    14 years struck out at least 120 times!
    For a HR hitter pitchers sure weren't afraid to pitch to him.
    Never walked. Even intentionally!
    OBP barely .300!
    Only had 3 years where he batted over .260.
    .230 - .240 was his norm.
    Terrible defensive player. Terrible teammate. Rude person!
    Not a Harper fan even as a Nats fan but there is very little comparison.
    Ended his career juiced in Oakland with the rest of the A's!
    Pleny of players that hit the longball that should be in before Kingman even gets considered.
    Frank Howard for 1!

    Craig AKA "Crazylegs"
  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Had one of these bad boys as a kid. Long live King Kong!!

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 2:52PM

    Everybody has their own opinion on this subject. I think he did enough to get in. Year after year after year he was one of the most feared hitters in the game. He was just shy of 500. Seven seasons he had 30 or more home runs. Six seasons he had 20 or more home runs. Like I said, everbody has different opinions. If he had hit just 58 more home runs, we probably wouldn't be discussing it at all.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something positive I'll say about Dave Kingman. He was fun to watch. I don't recall ever getting up from the TV set when he was at the plate.

    That being said, i was always glad that he was on the other team. :D

  • FINESTKINDFINESTKIND Posts: 374 ✭✭✭

    Bruce "Space Man" Lee

  • orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Adam Dunn was basically the same as Kingman. And I’d take Dunn in his prime over Kingman every day of the week.

    What I Collect:

    PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 77.97% Complete)


    PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.26% Complete)


    PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
  • waxman2745waxman2745 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭

    @brad31 said:

    Had one of these bad boys as a kid. Long live King Kong!!

    He didn't show up to his own t-shirt day at the stadium. I wonder if he got a t-shirt from that day?

    Adam
    buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember reading a story about Kingman. One day during spring training, a young boy with a clean baseball asked Kingman if he would sign it for him. Kingman replied, "Sure, kid, toss it over." The boy tossed Kingman the ball and Kingman watched the ball land splat in a muddy puddle before walking away.

    But he certainly was exciting to watch. Yes, he did strike out a lot but by today's standards where guys now easily eclipse 140 strikeouts in a season, not as much as we thought.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • rmh111985rmh111985 Posts: 390 ✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Everybody has their own opinion on this subject. I think he did enough to get in. Year after year after year he was one of the most feared hitters in the game. He was just shy of 500. Seven seasons he had 30 or more home runs. Six seasons he had 20 or more home runs. Like I said, everbody has different opinions. If he had hit just 58 more home runs, we probably wouldn't be discussing it at all.

    Fred McGriff finished his career 7 shy of 500, drove in nearly 1600 runs and had far better stats across the board and just fell off the ballot. He may have been a product of the teams he played for, but still blows Kingman out of the water.

    Main collecting focus is Patrick Roy playing days 85/86-02/03, expect 1/1, National/All-Star stamped cards.PC Completion: 2,548/2,952; 86.31% My Patrick Roy PC Website:https://proy33collector.weebly.com

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rmh111985 said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Everybody has their own opinion on this subject. I think he did enough to get in. Year after year after year he was one of the most feared hitters in the game. He was just shy of 500. Seven seasons he had 30 or more home runs. Six seasons he had 20 or more home runs. Like I said, everbody has different opinions. If he had hit just 58 more home runs, we probably wouldn't be discussing it at all.

    Fred McGriff finished his career 7 shy of 500, drove in nearly 1600 runs and had far better stats across the board and just fell off the ballot. He may have been a product of the teams he played for, but still blows Kingman out of the water.

    I totally agree. I believe both Mcgriff and Kingman should be in.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    McGriff FAR SUPERIOR to Kingman.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kingman should not be in even if he had 500 homers.

  • maxdomemaxdome Posts: 87 ✭✭✭

    I met Dave Kingman when I was a kid. He was friendly and signed his autograph for me .

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 6:27PM

    It's ridiculous that McGriff and Kingman aren't both in. It's just ridiculous.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 7:45PM

    McGriff=yes. Kingman=not quite.

    Take a look at Dave's games played per year, he was not really a full-time player, so his numbers aren't as good as if he played full years. His SLG wasn't bad but not HOF level for a "slugger".

    1979 was a great year for him and 1984 was good, but find me another year where he played 120+ games and had an OPS over .800.

    McGriff had 10 seasons over .850 and played in 144 or more games in each of those seasons.

    PLEASE don't say these two guys were similar just because Dave hit a nice number of Home runs.

    It's really NOT ridiculous that Kingman isn't in the HOF. His RBI per 162 games is 101 yet he only drove in over 100 twice in 16 years. Certainly shows he wasn't on the field enough.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 7:53PM

    Mark McGwire pre-steroids(1986-91)...

    .244 avg 2656 ab 178 hrs. (1hr. per 15 AB's) .356 On base % .488 Slugging

    Post steroids (1992-2001)

    .277 avg 3531 ab 405 hrs (1hr per 8.7 ABs) .424 on base % .663 slugging

    now if you apply the averages of his pre steroids stats to his steroid stats you get the following.

    .244 average 6187 abs 1512 hits 412 home runs .356 on base % .488 slugging

    Dave Kingman is the following...

    .236 avg 6677 abs 1575 hits 442 homers .302 on base .478 slugging.

    They almost mirror each other.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are we seriously saying Kingman is a HOFer? I mean, I loved watching him play, and he will always be Kong and Sky King to me, but the HOF? Even Harold Baines getting in doesn't help there.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • georgebailey2georgebailey2 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019 11:14PM

    I thought we were talking about a Sammy Sosa without pigmentation.

    Then 1970s starts trashing Mike Schmidt as though Schmidt had called his mom a nasty name at the grocery store checkout line.

    In between, some people seem to be saying, seriously or sarcastically, I can't tell, that Dave Kingman belongs in the HOF. Then others feel obligated to point out the obvious that he doesn't, while others say he wasn't a nice guy. Occasionally, someone will say that he's not so bad.

    Mostly, I am just confused by Sammy Sosa - as we all should be.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's just flat out disgraceful that McGriff didn't get in. > @georgebailey2 said:

    I thought we were talking about a Sammy Sosa without pigmentation.

    Then 1970s starts trashing Mike Schmidt as though Schmidt had called his mom a nasty name at the grocery store checkout line.

    In between, some people seem to be saying, seriously or sarcastically, I can't tell, that Dave Kingman belongs in the HOF. Then others feel obligated to point out the obvious that he doesn't, while others say he wasn't a nice guy. Occasionally, someone will say that he's not so bad.

    Mostly, I am just confused by Sammy Sosa - as we all should be.

    Yep, that pretty much sums it up. A Good ol' fashioned Collectors Universe thread. Bless it's heart.😉

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArtVandelay said:
    Mark McGwire pre-steroids(1986-91)...

    .244 avg 2656 ab 178 hrs. (1hr. per 15 AB's) .356 On base % .488 Slugging

    Post steroids (1992-2001)

    .277 avg 3531 ab 405 hrs (1hr per 8.7 ABs) .424 on base % .663 slugging

    now if you apply the averages of his pre steroids stats to his steroid stats you get the following.

    .244 average 6187 abs 1512 hits 412 home runs .356 on base % .488 slugging

    Dave Kingman is the following...

    .236 avg 6677 abs 1575 hits 442 homers .302 on base .478 slugging.

    They almost mirror each other.

    Pre steroids McGwire not a HOFer either.

    IF, if, if........

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You know, I watched a Mark McGwire interview a few months back, and he swears up and down that if he had not used steroids, he could have accomplished the same stats that he did with steroids.

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭✭

    Dave Kingman a HOFer? Thanks for the laugh. The one year he was on the ballot he got 3 votes (0.7%). Please just stop.

    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019 7:47AM

    Kingman not a Hall if Fame player.

    He made my first childhood Cubs teams interesting to watch and I will always be a fan. I used to pretend I was Dave Kingman as I hit wiffle balls over the neighbors fence. I met him twice in adulthood and he was very nice both times.

    However, he was a surly player and tried to stop women from being able to be sportswriters and cover baseball teams.

    Harper is much better than Kingman and I think he will ultimately be a Hall of Fame player. Time will tell. He won an MVP and had almost 100 home runs at the age most players are still figuring out how to hit in the minors.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Try and look at it this way, if Kingman had stayed a little longer, and hit just 58 more home runs, then he would be in the 500 home run club. I mean he hit 442 home runs, and he has more rbi's than Tony Gwynn. In my opinion he did enough to get in.

  • waxman2745waxman2745 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019 8:54AM

    Kingman's career batting average was .236. No way should he be in the HOF.

    Adam
    buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
  • krisd3279krisd3279 Posts: 808 ✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Try and look at it this way, if Kingman had stayed a little longer, and hit just 58 more home runs, then he would be in the 500 home run club. I mean he hit 442 home runs, and he has more rbi's than Tony Gwynn. In my opinion he did enough to get in.

    So he has maybe 1 of the 5 tools?

    Kris

    My 1971 Topps adventure - Davis Men in Black

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019 11:06AM

    1.Seven seasons of 30+ homer runs.
    2.Six seasons of 20+ home runs.
    1210 driven in.

    That's consistency. Yeah, his batting average was only .236, but Dave Kingman was one of the most feared hitters during his era, and he was a threat EVERY TIME, he stepped up to the plate. Everybody knew who Dave Kingman was, and what he might do when he stepped into the batters box.

  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chris Carter is/was a way better comparison to Dave Kingman.

Sign In or Register to comment.