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Bryce Harper
Tomi
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in Sports Talk
I just don't see how this guy is as hyped up in Baseball as he is. His career numbers are not impressive at all. Aside from probably hitting 500+ home runs, I just don't see him accomplishing anything great. Are you guys impressed or am I missing something. $330 million for this guy is just insane. I see him as a modern day Dale Murphy. I loved watching Dale play growing up but his career numbers are just meh. I just can't figure how Harper gets so much attention.
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Bottom line nobody is worth 300 Million. Harper has been overhyped for awhile, SI had that article on him when he was like 16 and was being touted as a phenom, then he played for everyone’s favorite team the Nationals, he becomes a free agent and boom stupid money, probably stupid contract. I know Steve will say differently but I wouldn’t have spent that money on him.
Well, we all know that Harper has been struggling as of late. But he helped win the Phillies a game today.
His batting average now up to a lusty .222
Because he has the talent.
Sadly, he is swinging for the fences but 500 HR means COOPERSTOWN. So I can’t blame him.
It’s not called Home Run ball but base ball. Run the bases, steal bases, base hits. Here’s a guy who could be .300 25-30 and instead is .250 35-40. I’ll take the former ALL DAY. And it’s all about approach.
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Harper for 13 years and 300+ million is an albatross that will make the Ryan Howard contract seem like a good one by the time it's over and done with.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You're exactly right. He's got the money, he's got the security. Now he needs to do what's best for the team, what's best for the Philly fans, and that's winning a World Series.
You may turn out to be right, but the analogy is apples and oranges.
The Phillies basically had to pay Howard. Suffice to say that Howard helped the Phillies win a World Series. He was an elite power hitter at that time. If the Phillies didn't pay him, then some other team would have. If a team can afford it, they are basically forced to pay a player such as that who is on their team.
Harper hasn't done anything for the Phillies yet as far as helping us win a World Series. The Phillies didn't "have to" sign Harper like they did with Howard. The Phillies paid Howard to thank him for his past performance with the Phillies, and hope his future performance would be on par with that.
As it turned out, you and some others on here were the Nostradamus prediction geniuses about Ryan Howard who said Howard would go down the tubes which he did. Good for you, and you've patted yourself on the back for that call at least fifty times over the years. And maybe you'll do it fifty times more, go for a hundred - LOL
The Phillies paid Harper under the same premise but there's a big difference in that Harper's past performance wasn't with the Phillies. The only loyalty Philly fans have with Bryce Harper is what he can do for our team now and in the future. Frankly, if he doesn't perform up to expectations, it could get quite ugly with the boos.
Bottom line - Harper can't be considered a bust as of yet, especially if he helps the Phillies win a World Series or more. I will criticize him when he deserves it, and right now he deserves it. Batting .222 is simply not acceptable. However I'm still on the Bryce Harper bandwagon, and unless he quits on himself and goes off the deep end, I will stay on the bandwagon.
BTW, Phillies fans are enjoying an interesting pennant race. Your Mets are five and a half games out and seem to already be done for the season. Mets fans are at the bar again, ordering shots of hard liquor to drown their sorrows, mumbling to each other, 'Wait 'til next year." LOL
500 home runs most assuredly does not mean Cooperstown. There are currently 6 eligible players not enshrined.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
@craig44
It does if you don’t have a steroid collar around your neck.
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Agreed with Tim, no steroid issues AND 500 HR’s equals Cooperstown
Valid points.
I've never read much about Sabermetrics. But in the movie Moneyball, Billy Beane stated (paraphrase) that a walk is as good as a hit. I don't know if Bill James fully agrees with that or not?
Yes, Harper gets his walks and that's good, but he strikes out a lot as well. Anyone can debate this any which way they want, and that's fine. However no matter how ya slice it, a batting average of .222 is not acceptable for an outfielder. Unless ya want a player like Dave Kingman on your team as a home run novelty act, and don't really care all that much about the World Series, as Dave Kingman never appeared in one.
Who knows what goes on behind the scenes? Perhaps the front office stated or implied to Harper that they want him hitting home runs, even if the BA declines. Well it's their business and they can run it any which way they want. However, I've always liked what Hank Aaron stated, that he never tried to hit a home run, that he only ever tried to hit the ball hard. I think that Hank Aaron hitting strategy if applied to Bryce Harper would be best for everyone, except opposing teams.
with the bases loaded a walk is as good as a hit(sometimes) but with a runner on second or third it accomplishes nothing.
A walk is definitely NOT as good as a hit.
Focusing too much on his walks seems a bit unusual to me, BUT he does seem to run pretty well, so he's not just a slugger.
His best 2 years were when he got his BA over .300, those were not surprisingly his best SLG and OB% years as well. He strikes out about once a game, but more than that last year and so far this year. That doesn't seem too bad.
On a player like Harper I look first to SLG and the first thing I saw was that he had 2 years that were far superior; 2015 was off the charts and 2017 (only played in 111 games) was not as good, but still amazing. Otherwise he slugs at a very good, but not great percentage.
He also seems to miss quite a few games. He's missed 50 (or so) games in three of his seven seasons. He's averaged 132 Games per year so far, that seems a bit low for a young player. Makes what you are paying him that much more.
Overall, he certainly has a lot of talent, but seems to me to be very inconsistent.
Time will tell.
Bryce harper , If I didn't already know he was a ballplayer I'd assume that was the name of a transgender activist or possibly a vegan. could be both actually
Fred McGriff falling 7 home runs short of 500 is just sad. If there were no strike shortened seasons he would be well over 500 and would be in.
Are you so sure about Bryce in this respect? He's a pretty big boy
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The fact that he didn’t hang around to get that 500 is very respectable
No, I’m not.
But I think I know the 6 guys you mean and those boys are either guilty of a failed test OR did enough for me to have drawn a reasonable conclusion about their use.
I’m not looking to have the ‘this guy never failed a test’ argument about Barry Bonds or anyone else. I have eyes, a brain and have read many things for and against them all. I have my opinion of it, I don’t care if they get in or not and those six guys have lots of money and lots of records. I’m ok if they don’t get to have it all and if they do it will be no surprise to me either.
It’s a very simple fact that nowadays, the cheaters win. A lot. Look at the Kardashian Empire that was built on one adult film.
Amazing world we live in, huh?
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Look at Harper's dad when he was pitching to him during the All Star break.
I just can't trust any of the players today. Stanton looks like a pro bodybuilder in a sport that is supposed to break down muscle in a long season. Trout's head size is going in the Bonds direction. When there are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake I would think theses guys would risk the positive test and still keep all their money after serving their suspension. Chemists are just really good at passing tests, just ask Lance Armstrong. Too bad they don't test in the NBA because Lebron would be the poster boy for PED's. It is documented that he once gained 7 pounds in a single game when he was weighed before and after. His response was "that's crazy".
@Tomi You mention Trout. I don't think this means anything one way or the other, but in 2013 he said he felt PEDs should result in a permanent ban, 1st time.
it Cracks me up when people are in awe of older guys like Harpers dad, the guy is obviously getting help whether it’s test or some other PED, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all but guys that age don’t get jacked like that from eating tuna and egg whites while working out. I remember when everyone was just in shock at the work our ethic Ed Hocculi ( Former NFL Ref ) had, they even did a SI article on him lol. There is a guy at my gym who is 69 years old and he is literally setting records for his age group, I put it on him one day and he admitted Large doses of test and HGH. The younger guys it’s harder to tell, speaking from my experience when I was in my early to late thirty’s I always maintained a 335 bench and 425 squat at 180llbs. I was shredded but not even close to having any size. Drug free 100%, your body chemistry has a lot to do with it, basically it’s impossible to tell unless they test everyone quite often
in short, it comes down to live longer or reap the rewards of what these meds bring, everything puts strain on our Liver. I choose to live longer while most of these athletes choose the glory.
that's a poor choice and sad commentary.
Completely agree.
There is no doubt that when these athletes turn 40 or older, and start feeling the brutal health affects from these PEDs, that they will wish that they had never done it. All that money and fame doesn't do much for ya when you're writhing in agony because your internal organs are failing.
Harper...over hyped, over paid.
Just examples. Not accusing anyone, (except Lebron) just using the "eye" test in cases. I hope he is clean as I am a fan and he is great for the sport. Point being that I would not be surprised if the biggest stars are using due to the amount of money baseball pays. I've been around jacked bodybuilders my whole life and there is a difference visually between a "natural" vs. "jacked" person. The steroid era just sucked as all-time numbers are just not reachable anymore and will always remain.
Just one more pat on the back for predicting Howard's tumble
Grote15, from 2012 to 2016 Howard gave the phillies .226/.292/.427, OPS+ of 95, and horrible defensive value. In return, the Phillies gave him 125 million during that time.
Harper's lifetime OPS+ is 138. His lifetime batting average is .277...and did hit .330 one year and .319 another. Its just that he throws a couple .240's in there to confuse things. He is at 123 OPS+ this year...and I'm sure a hot streak is coming sooner or later.
I don't think the Phillies are anywhere near in danger of wasting the money they wasted on Howard.
Howard made 25 million a year during that 2012-2016 tumble. Harper is only making 27 million a year, and is even lower on the back end..
<<< I don't think the Phillies are anywhere near in danger of wasting the money they wasted on Howard. >>>
Points understood. But of course your one comment pasted above is a derogatory back handed compliment...and that's fine. That's sports talk.
However in reality when discussing Harper's career with the Phillies...it's way, WAY, too early to consider using words such as "wasting" or "wasted" money in definitive terms at this point in time.
I'm concerned about Harper's slump right now as much as any good Phillies fan, and I don't like it. Although it appears he may be breaking out of it.
The bottom line is we shall see what happens as time goes on. I still firmly believe that Bryce Harper will help bring a World Series championship to Philadelphia. Perhaps more than one. And it's going to take a helluva lot more than one batting slump to make me change my mind about that.
Harper is also one of the few bonafide stars in the league. Not that that equates to success, just a fact.
I liked the "Crime Dog".
1919
Winning above everything.
2019
Get mine.
Nuff said.
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No backhanded comment meant. I didn't mean to imply that the phillies wasted money on Harper, but just not as much as Howard. That was all directed toward Howard and his badness...as predicted. As for Harper, I don't see it as a waste of money by any means. They actually got him at a reasonable price compared to other players. Harper will earn.
It's just a bit puzzling how Harper got off to a Ruthian start with the Phillies, and now with this slump his batting average is tantamount to a utility infielder.
I'm guessing that his adrenaline was really pumped up in the beginning wanting to impress the Phillies, which he did. However it's just not humanly possible to keep one's adrenaline up like that for 162 games. So he ran out of gas, so to speak.
Harper may be the type whereby it would do him good in the long run to sit him down for a few days when in a slump. Let him relax, build up that adrenaline and then let him go out there and perform. But of course the Phillies aren't going to sit him down.
Well that's it for the Freudian analysis. Suffice to say i think that when the Phillies get into the playoffs, Harper may get pumped up and respond with a magnificent performance. I look forward to hopefully seeing it.
He was doing great until he was shower raped when he strayed to close to penn state .
By the ghost of Joe Paterno
edited to add punchline which was lopped off somehow
Steve wishing the dislike button was still here
I think he’s a baseball player and baseball players (98%) run hit and cold. That’s it. That’s all it is. There’s been a (very) select few hitters in history who have been consistently consistent over a season/career - meaning their ‘measurables’ show no really prolonged dips. I’ll say taken biweekly since day to day is crazy and even a week can be too small of a sample size. Then, there’s the other 98 percent - wild swings of productivity and inactivity. I like to remind folks - every few years there’s a random guy who has a 6 RBI game. When he finished the season with 60, that’s 10
As a 20 year rotisserie baseball player (with a disproportionate number of championships), on of my governing principles is at play here.
What makes this perfect for these forums is that I literally call it the ‘Back of the Baseball Card’ Theory. While it’s self explanatory, the theory is that you can use the back of a baseball card to decide when the right time is to trade for or trade away a player, assuming good health. I’ll use baseball-reference.com screen cap for an up to the minute baseball card.
If this were a stock?
Buy, Mortimer, Buy!
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I normally deep fry my baseballs but I'll give it a whirl , the rotisserie works wonders on chicken ,
Honestly, it’s helps explain the salty opinions and commentary.
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Harper’s predicted line from today to end of season:
72 Runs, 22 HR, 66 RBI, 7 SB, .278
And therefore ending 2019 with...
101, 31 HR, 97 RBI, 8 SB, .261
I’d say, with no injurues, you can pretty much take that to the bank. I’d be slightly concerned with his plate approach (swinging for fences) and the rising Ks and falling average but the dude can rake and he won’t even start to lose bat speed - clean or cheating - for another 6-7 years.
Now, ‘is that worth the money’ will always be tossed in the ring, so I’ll say: Yes. Very much so.
Those are great numbers - any era, all time. Factor in that he’s just 26 THIS YEAR and has played SEVEN seasons and he already has a 40+ HR season, a 30+ HR season and 4 20+ HR seasons. His only season with less so far he missed 40% of that season, hit 13 that year (a 20 HR pace) and was just 21 years old; oddly enough, the age where 70%* of future major leaguers are playing out their final year of college before being drafted.
I’ll add this - I don’t really ‘hate’ anyone. I gave that sh1t up years ago. So I can safely say that if Bryce Harper was on fire, I would put him out. Not that way. With the nearest fire extinguisher. But I would be walking, not rushing around.
Smug.
Entitled.
Overrated.
In this day and age, these are the qualities our society loves.
Everywhere you look.
EVERYWHERE
*There’s a 68% chance this number is inaccurate, since 83% of statistics are completely fabricated 38 percent of the time and the margin for error is 50 percent.
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There's no question that Harper is swinging for the fences, and at this point in time my intuition based on little or nothing tells me he's got the Phillies front office approval to do it.
We shall see if it continues or not.
.261/31/97 is "great"? Really? Since 1950, those numbers have been accomplished 733 times - 10.5 times per season. Something that happens that often isn't great. Good? Very good? Sure. Great? Nah.
Well, those are interesting numbers that you present. IF he does it this year, he’d have three.
That does make me wonder, though, how many of the 773 are attributable to single players who did it multiple times? And what’s the list of guys who did it multiple times look like?
I’m willing to bet that THAT list will not be players who good or even very good but great players.
I mean, if there’s roughly 300 batters in the league every year and only 10 or 11 guys accomplish or achieve these milestones, I would think they’d often be the same guys getting All Star selections and MVP votes.
How do YOU measure great ballplayers? By height?
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Really really poor taste.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Worse than poor taste. Sick.
So far nobody in Philly is entirely happy with Bryce Harper. And why should we be? He came here advertised as a super-star player, and frankly so far this season he really shouldn't even be described as a star with his current stats.
That being said, I don't think many Phillies fans have quit on Harper as of yet. Not that we have much of a choice. But we just need to be patient and hope he acclimates to the situation, stops swinging for the fences in every at bat, play fundamentally sound baseball, and help the Phillies win ballgames leading to making the playoffs and getting to the World Series.
We shall see how it goes the rest of the season.
Really Really sick!
Oh brother
I guess its ok to get on a guy for a hitting slump in a kids game but don't say mean things about the pedo-enabler. Good to know
Now don’t be a snowflake.
The simple fact is that there was no joke. It was a poorly worded, ill crafted and not topical sentence. First of all, Penn St and Philadelphia are miles apart and we ALL know FOR A FACT that ghosts can NOT travel that kind of distance. You DON’T haunt a state, a house and maybe a small cemetery, possibly a park and I’ll even give you a whole campus. State? You’re losing serious credibility.
Second of all, pedophilia is a serious topic. I’m not looking at this from a moral viewpoint, mind you, but a comedic one. If you are going to make jokes on the topic, they better be funny or YOU look like a jerk. This one usually does well, as a guide:
(Now, this does a bit better as a joke out of left field but...)
Why is Neil Armstrong the opposite of Michael Jackson?
Because Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and Michael Jackson had sex with small boys.
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