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Ichiro vs Rose
doubledragon
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Ichiro vs Rose. Who should be considered the all time hits king? Ichiro finished up with 4,367 all time hits in his career, but this also includes his time playing in Japan. Pete "Chuck hustle" Rose finished with 4,256 career hits, all in MLB. Who should be considered the king?
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Rose...end of conversation.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12301153/#Comment_12301153
Rose had 4683 if you count HIS minor league stats.
Japanese baseball is inferior to MLB...it is mini league baseball. I stand corrected...
I would like to have seen Ichiro play his entire carreer in MLB, just to see what his numbers would have been.
Including Japanese stats OR minor league numbers is just plain stupid! Mike Hessman hit 447 career home runs! Where’s his ticket to Cooperstown?? Oh wait, 433 of them were in the minors. Not the same.
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I give it to Ichiro. Also, slightly unrelated, if you include Japanese stats, Ichiro has 708 stolen bases (11th all time), 2,078 runs scored (7th all time - sandwiched between Rose and Mays) and 5,883 total bases (5th all time - sandwiched between Bonds and Cobb). The guy was a beast.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
Japanese professional baseball is not even on the same level as AAA.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Am I reading this correctly? I didnt know we had racists on this message board.
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Hate to say it........Rose.
Only if you're looking to be offended around every corner. For those who didn't live through WW2, it's nothing more than an abbreviation and I'm going to give the poster the benefit that they did not intend it in a derogatory fashion.
Rose.
Are we not going to count Babe Ruth's home runs now because he played before integration?
Rose all day...….not a real discussion
I've seen MLB, NPB and KBO games and have lived in Asia for six years. The talent is in that order. Based on that criteria alone, Rose.
What people do not seem to factor in is that Ichiro came into MLB hitting .350. His skill level coming into MLB would have transferred over at a much earlier age too. He averaged under 500 AB's in Japan versus nearly 700 AB's in MLB his first 10 years in the league. Even if his average dropped from .355 in Japan to .300 in MLB he still covers the hits to make him the hit king.
I agree with another poster, I would have liked to have seen Ichiro play his entire career in MLB. His stardom would have been escalated.
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They "do" have better sushi tho.
I remember guys like Randy Bass would dominate in Japan. So I wouldn't put much stock in those stats.
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Ichiro is probably third best "hitter" behind Rose and Bonds, both were some of the best PLAYERS ever. "Hitter" being just eye at plate, bat on ball, ball in play, reach base safely... not run producer, power hitter or how clutch of a hitter. He doesn't hold a candle to many in that regard.
I agree with a couple of the more recent posters that I WISH Ichiro played his whole career in the states and that, IF he did, he WOULD be the hit kings. But alas he didn’t, and my Delorian is just a car, so that doesn’t answer the OP’s question. Rose IS the hit king and I don’t understand how anybody could see it any other way.
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I think I'd have to think about puttting Ted Williams and Wade Boggs up there somewhere.
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Rose was NOT one of the all-time great hitters, he simply has the most hits.
Don't confuse "most hits" with best. He doesn't come ANYWHERE near Williams as a hitter!!!!!!!!
There's simply no way of knowing how Ichiro would have done had he played his entire career in the MLB.
Comparing two generations and two leagues is impossible. You can only speculate. MLB has Rose as its all time hit leader, Baseball has Ichiro. There’s really not much debate to that.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
Ichiro holds 2 records that might never be broken: 262 hits in a season, and 10 consecutive seasons of 200+ hits.
He was also the 2nd fastest to reach the 2,000 hit milestone (1,402 games).
It would have been great to see what he could have done if he started in the MLB at age 20 instead of 27.
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I just wonder if someday, Chuck will be allowed into the hall of fame. I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
If we are talking about stats accumulation, Rose is it and agree with others it’s just not real debate to include leagues other than MLB
Who was the better player is more interesting topic. I’d take Ichiro because of the arm and baserunning, but there will be great arguments about Pete’s positional fluidity and challenge me on how good his baserunning was and that Ichiro really wasn’t that much better
And about just pure eye, bat on ball, ball in play hitters, Gwynn was the best I ever saw
Ichiro was the better player. Rose is the all time hit leader.
For a single season Ichiro was better than anyone - 262 hits. Rose is all-time hit leader, period.
I know this is about hits but Ichiro’s obp was pedestrian. Rose was much better but still far down the list.
ROFLMAO
Rose was one of the greatest players of all-time period. He holds more major league records than any player in history.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
He ought to. He played for about half a century.
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It's just fascinating the way Chuck would be a manager/player. He would be the manager, and put himself into the game. He broke Cobbs record and he was the manager. Simply fascinating.
Like Tom Brady.
Rose and Cobb both played 24 yrs. Rickey Henderson played 25.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Rose was a good player but not as good as you believe he was or as good as Cobb or Henderson.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While placing bets from the dugout phone, too, no doubt, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Yes, I have to admit, Chuck definately has some moral issues, and no doubt that will keep him out of the hall of fame.
Taking statistics from a inferior baseball league and adding those to MLB statistics is silly.
There seems to be a lot of "if this happened & if that happened" in Ichiro's case.
I don't like the "if" factor here, or anywhere else for the most part. However with Ichiro coming into the league and dominating right from day one makes you wonder.
To be clear I m not one of the posters that would add his prior numbers to his MLB stats.
"Some moral issues" that's a nice way of putting it. BAD BAD excuse for a human being.
He has the hits records. How many other records does he hold? What are they?
lmgtfy.com/?q=Pete+Rose+records
Andy
Nothing too impressive. Longevety
A lot of people seem to be torn in two different directions when it comes to the issue of Chuck's gambling. Some think it's no big deal, while others see it as a cardinal sin. I certainly think it's a big deal if it affected the outcomes of games.
Rose.
That said, based upon his performance entering MLB at age 27, it is highly likely that Ichiro would have been pushing or eclipsing 4300 hits had he began his career in MLB. This is even if you push his debut age to 21 rather than 20. If you decrease his batting average, but increase the games, there would probably be a net increase in hits.
But, he didn't and neither a flux capacitor, the quantum realm, nor the time stone can change that now.
If I were putting together a 25 man roster, Rose might get the 25th spot, only if you ignore the personal demons. He appeared to bring grit and clubhouse intangibles to a team. But in baseball terms, while his qualitative stats are very good, they're not great enough to put him in the top 25. Lots of quantity, though. The personal demons eliminate him.
The hits record is a mega record to hold. I violently reject the “it was because of longevity” angle LOL since when is staying healthy and playing forever a detriment?
.. take a look at Aaron Judge. One great season and now can’t stay healthy. Before he knows it he will be 30 and forgotten if he doesn’t find some longevity.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
He would not have broken the record if he had not been the manager. Singles hitting first basemen are not in demand. He played longer than he should have based on his production (or lack there of).
No, you can’t penalize him for playing in a different era. In those days what he did as player manager were accepted.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The stories about him having sex with children and stealing from other baseball stars make him a deplorable....
I guess we will agree to disagree.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
44 game hit streak isn't impressive? lol who else accomplished this feat?
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED