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1687 Spanish Silver Cob Coin - Genuine?
InGodWeTrustCoins
Posts: 134 ✭✭✭
I listed this coin on eBay yesterday. It was quickly removed and I got a 'restriction' on my account. The reason was because one of their experts had determined this coin to be counterfeit. I don't know hardly anything about these, but it looks legit to me.
What do y'all think? Any information on the coin would be appreciated.
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Also post in the world and ancient forum.
Edit to add link: https://forums.collectors.com/categories/world-ancient-coins-forum
The edges of the holes in the 8s and 6 seem too sharp, relative to the other edges on the coin.
This would suggest "tooled".
Or maybe the dirt which fills them simply has a high contrast.
I don't have the expertise to identify counterfeits for this series.
Looks like a cast copy of a Guatemalan countermarked 8 reales (KM96.2).
Countermarked Potosi example:
It's certainly not a US Coin.
It resembles an 8 reales from Potosi. These should weigh very close to 27 grams. Why not weight it to see if could possibly be 90% silver?
The circular depression in the first photo is supposed to be a countermark from a different time and country, however since it appears to have the same mushy appearance as the rest of the item, I would guess that this a cast copy.
As jgenn noted, check out the detail in the countermark in the image I added.
The coin is a very poorly made cast counterfeit.
I was going to ask you all to look at the coin and tell me why but if you don't know what a genuine cob looks like, you wouldn't know. Let's have some fun anyway. If you wish to play...blow the image up and describe some of the things you see. You don't need to know anything as this is a TEST of your "eye-for-detail."
For example, I see fine scratches and possible file marks. One member saw sharp holes in the numerals. What do you see?
I am 99% sure that if you were to scroll through The Numismatist from the 1970’s you would find this piece in either Virgil Hancock’s “Featuring Fakes” column or the ANACS column.
I see “made in china”.
It looks crudely made like an actual cob. Weren't the planchets made by cutting the ends of silver bars? Most of the modern replicas look so evidently fake.
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No, this is 1960’s-1970’s era.
If you guys want to play, what do you see on the coin?
I'll take that bet; but it does look like something from the 60's - 70's.
It's a poor cast as evident by metal porosity and a seam.
8 Reales Madness Collection
There appears to be a seam on the edge as most cast coins have. Porosity can indicate casting bubbles, but so many of these are sea salvage I don't think that is indicative by itself. The countermark being as weak as the rest of the coin is also indicative as it is so far recessed it should wear less - see the real one above.
It almost looks like someone retooled the mold to bring out the detail which is why the holes in the 8's are so super-round and the edges of the boxes super square.
By the way, for those of you who (wrongly) insist that eBay doesn't care about fakes: please note the OP's immediate punishment.
Don't understand ebays action for a one time listing when others do it for years. Here is a example.
https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=timothycrsn1&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&searchInterval=30&which=negative&interval=365&_trkparms=negative_365
I'll play, as others have already noted,
-lots of pits that would appear on cast copies
-lots of opposing file marks, way to many to be "adjustment" marks
-does look like a seam around the edge
-numbers look hokey
-I also see an unusually large number of almost perfectly round sharp edged large holes or pits that don't have the rounded and worn edges of the other features on the coin
-and last but not least, does anyone else see Edvard Munch's "The Scream" peering out from the central left edge of the top image?
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
You've pretty much nailed it. That line near the rim is very unusual. I'd like to see the edge. BTW, bubbles from a cast look nothing like sea water corrosion. Others can magnify the image and see the perfectly round tiny depressions caused by bubbles.
Well ,we don't know it was a one-time listing. And, for all we know, those people have all been "restricted".
Seller is not restricted and still has many listings in coins & paper money. I have had dozens of this sellers listings removed only to have him relist them. He used to photo the counterfeits now he just hijacks photos of real coins. Go ahead and buy something from him and see if you get a genuine coin, then report to ebay and see if they do anything.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/timothycrsn1/m.html?_trksid=p3692
Please make sure to report back.
@jmlanzaf
This one has been at it for 4 months selling ONLY counterfeits and has a current listing..... ebay cares?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/mouabshop/m.html?item=392293525196&ul_noapp=true&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1878-CC-Morgan-One-Dollar/392293525196?hash=item5b568426cc:g:eWUAAOSwAE1c01wj
Restricted doesn't mean banned. Sometimes they limit the number of things you can list or something like that.
Thank you all for the great responses! I now know why eBay removed the listing however, I don't know why they put the 1 day restriction (we did get that removed) on our account. I have almost 5000 positive feedback, and we sell almost 400 coins a month.
I would just like to make it clear that the current discussion on this thread about an eBay seller selling counterfeits is NOT us, they are referring to a different seller.
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"I would just like to make it clear that the current discussion on this thread about an eBay seller selling counterfeits is NOT us, they are referring to a different seller."
That is correct. You have outstanding feedback! I would buy from you.
"Looks legit to me" will do nothing but get you in trouble. This is the age of fakes. Authentication of this type of item is a must.
Cast copy. For the reasons noted plus one more.
If I can explain my impression correctly....
Most cobs are not struck completely because the faces of the dies did not reach certain parts of the uneven planchet surface. However on your "coin", the missing/unstruck areas are above the struck areas. There should be no unstruck areas higher in relief than the struck areas - that is contrary to the conditions that lead to incomplete impressions.
?????
I'm slightly confused by this. As a cast copy, it probably looks like the original excerpt for the items noted.
Let me try again.
The relief of the unstuck areas should not exceed the relief of the struck details. But on this thing some of them appear to be higher.
Definitely a cast copy of a Bolivia 8 reales. The grainy, mushy look gives it away.
Happy to hear your restriction was removed.... I am not an expert on these coins, but learned a lot from the answers here... Thanks @Insider2 for challenging us to find the details... Cheers, RickO
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