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Planchet Adjustment Marks

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 8, 2019 8:12AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I just ran across this PCGS MS63 non-CAC and thought it looked very interesting.

Post any other planchet adjustment coins here!

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36777633

Comments

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you mean planchet adjustment marks, right?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I think you mean planchet adjustment marks, right?

    Yes! Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed now.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone at PCGS thinks so.
    :#

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as I know 1901 is a late date for these. Is that right? > @Coinstartled said:

    Someone at PCGS thinks so.
    :#

  • earlycoinsearlycoins Posts: 282 ✭✭✭

    Very common in early coinage.

  • earlycoinsearlycoins Posts: 282 ✭✭✭

    I owned this example for awhile. Possibly the King of adjustment mark coins.

    http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?sale=63&site=1&lot=867

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Roger, what would be a proper term to use ?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The MS63 OP coin valued at $20K has got to be a tough one to find a buyer for when a MS61 as below is valued at $11K.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    The MS63 OP coin valued at $20K has got to be a tough one to find a buyer for when a MS61 as below is valued at $11K.

    But is this one for sale?

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019 6:50AM

    @Insider2 said:

    @Broadstruck said:
    The MS63 OP coin valued at $20K has got to be a tough one to find a buyer for when a MS61 as below is valued at $11K.

    But is this one for sale?

    We don't know if the first is either?

    Yet if I had a $20K budget for an example I'd rather have a hole in my set than one with extreme Road Rash.

    I actually like that secondary album toned MS61 over many of the top grade examples on coin facts.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019 6:53AM

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Roger, what would be a proper term to use ?

    AFAIK, since the time the ANA's Certification Service was in DC, we called them "roller marks." I have read all about the draw bench during planchet production (it is also in Roger's book). I never saw a draw bench at the Mint (way before my time) So at some time lines on the strip that transferred to the planchet and were not struck out may not always come from a draw bench. I'll guess that after 1904 these marks are rarely seen.

    I've used Planchet Stria or Striae because it covers everything that could have caused the marks.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Roger, what would be a proper term to use ?

    For early US coins, "adjustment marks" seems good - descriptive of what and why the scrapes occurred.

    For later coins, where the scratches are caused by a drawbench or roller mill and not intentional adjustment to planchet weight, maybe "roller marks" or something similar will work? I forget what term the Morgan VAM folks use. (After 1901 drawbenches were not used.)

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Roger, Thanks for the suggestions -

    I'm the one who used the term Planchet Adjustment Marks
    on that 01-S Morgan Dollar posted above.

    So, out of these terms suggested, which would be the
    best for more modern era coins, like the Morgan Dollar?

    Planchet Stria

    Planchet Roller Marks

    (I believe Planchet Roller Marks would be the best description.)

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Roger, what would be a proper term to use ?

    For early US coins, "adjustment marks" seems good - descriptive of what and why the scrapes occurred.

    If "adjustment marks seem good" like you say, does anyone pay a premium for adjustment marks?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @RogerB said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Roger, what would be a proper term to use ?

    For early US coins, "adjustment marks" seems good - descriptive of what and why the scrapes occurred.

    If "adjustment marks seem good" like you say, does anyone pay a premium for adjustment marks?

    Actual adjustment marks can be extremely detracting on a coin. They are commonly seen on many coin types from many countries. France comes quickly to mind. At some time, the file marks made to remove metal from U.S. coins were placed on the edges of the planchet rather than its surfaces. IMO, when few and light, they add interest to a coin.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019 10:25AM

    @earlycoins said:
    I owned this example for awhile. Possibly the King of adjustment mark coins.

    http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?sale=63&site=1&lot=867

    Great coin. The scratches on the forehead almost look like a headband.

    PCGS CoinFacts lists the following pedigree:

    This isn't listed as being in any Registry Sets.

    Here's the cert and TrueView:

  • cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    I've always referred to the lines on these Morgans as Planchet Roller Marks. This is actually quite common on "S" mint Morgans from this era (1900-S, 01-S, 02-S ). Ironically, I've owned both of the Bust coins in this thread. The 1795 Half Dime in PCGS 61 was really nice and struck, especially the eagle on the reverse. I owned the 1794 Bust Dollar in the 1990's and had a very tough time selling it with all the adjustment marks, although it was extremely original and attractive. I recall selling it for around 80K....so obviously a while back!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the term 'planchet roller marks'...descriptive and accurate... Cheers, RickO

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I like the term 'planchet roller marks'...descriptive and accurate... Cheers, RickO

    Yep. That's pretty good. The name has to be brief yet descriptive, and "roller marks" or "planchet roller marks" seems to fit. Some 'official' definition would include the part about a drawbench, but that does not change the basic idea of damage to a coinage strip by dirty or defective equipment.
    :)

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you have never heard of the Republic of Ragusa here's the wikipedia page.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jgenn said:
    If you have never heard of the Republic of Ragusa here's the wikipedia page.

    Interesting history for a country that lasted almost 500 years from 1358 to 1808. It's also interesting that the country declined due to the discovery of America.

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019 7:18PM

    I technically still own this one but I recently sent it to Heritage -- it should make it into the September Long Beach auction.

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