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PTVETTER
Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭✭✭
I know nothing of this coin
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
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"If you in fact have a genuine Martha Washington pattern coin, you've really got something. Values of your coin could easily rise into the 1000s of US dollars."
https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=2584
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Was this with the 89cc?
No not the CC
How can I tell if it is real!
Very cool if it's real. What size is it. Quarter? Nickel? ???
From COCollector link.
If you in fact have a genuine Martha Washington pattern coin, you've really got something. Values of your coin could easily rise into the 1000s of US dollars. You see, private individuals were not supposed to have access to these coins when they were struck in recent times. The 1759 date is bogus. Coins like these were made in the later part of the 20th century.
I want to say it's the size of a nickel or maybe a bit smaller and thinner than a nickel
A quick search of Heritage Auctions: In the past 16 years, 63 Martha Washington pattern coins have sold. Prices from $1k to $30k, mostly sub-$5k.
Cheap Chinese "replicas" are available, so obviously authentication is crucial.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
The coin is the size of a dime and looks clad!
What should I be looking for to authenticate it?
Your item appears to be a Martha Washington test piece designed by U.S. Mint Assistant Engravers Edward Grove and Philip Fowler. Here's a photo of a 1965 clad piece struck from clashed dies.
[From the book Private Pattern and Related Pieces: INTERNATIONAL NICKEL & GOULD INCORPORATED. Photo courtesy HA.com.]
Send the experimental piece for authentication AND nondestructive metallurgical analysis. The latter is critical to determining what the experimental piece was used to test, and possibly when the tests occurred. Auction prices are strongly correlated with identification of the piece with a specific denomination or coinage test.
(This basic design has been used since the early 1960s. There are hundreds of size and alloy variations.)
@PTVETTER
If real, there are different issue dates in Coin Facts search under Patterns:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1965-10c-j-2101-martha-washington/410300
"What should I be looking for to authenticate it?" "looks clad!"
Not sure they were doing clad coins in 1759. Strike & details look off.
For example, the dime-size version should have about the same weight (2.27 grams) & diameter (17.9 mm) as an ordinary clad dime.
Beyond that, maybe someone will chime-in with more tips. Of course, to eliminate any doubt, you could submit it for grading.
Edit: dime-size specs
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
These are not struck in 1759. Follow the links in this thread
More info:
Sold $2,160
LOT DESCRIPTION
"1759" (1965) Pattern Martha Washington Dime-Size Medal. Judd-2101, Pollock-2081. Rarity-7-. Cupronickel-Copper. Reeded Edge. MS-62 (NGC).
Obv: A right-facing bust of Martha Washington with the word VIRGINIA above and the fantasy date 1759 below. The inscription MARTHA WASHINGTON is present in the lower right field before the bust. Rev: Three-quarter view of the Washington family home at Mount Vernon with the inscription MOUNT VERNON below. The inscription HOME OF THE WASHINGTON FAMILY is present around the border. A satiny and brilliant example with lightly struck centers, yet bold to sharp peripheral features. As noted at the uspatterns.com website: "This is the Martha Washington dime. It is believed to be the first metallurgical trials using the current cupro-nickel clad planchets. The Martha Washington obverse was designed by Edward R. Grove and the reverse is by Philip Fowler." Extant examples are believed to number 12 or more coins.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-GOSJC
Do a search on Judd-2101.
Please - Be careful with attribution based on Judd or Pollock numbers/descriptions. These test designs have been in regular use for 60 years. There are hundreds known and only a small percentage have ever been examined or thoroughly tested.
I have been wrong before & I'm sure I will be wrong again. Any number of variations could appear on a test or pattern piece. I would not think this issue would be the first pick for a counterfeiter. This may very well be a genuine piece. It would help if the photos were a bit clearer. I have never held or researched one of these so I will be the first to admit I don't know what I am talking about. I still don't like the overall look and would not spend any of my money on the coin based on the photos shown. I would love to see it come back from our host as a genuine coin, I learn more when I am wrong than when I am right.
Edited to add: If I was in the business of making replicas I would not make this issue. With few genuine pieces available it could be hard to find one to make a copy from. It would be a lower demand, higher value that most buyers would require authentication. Still don't like it.
$1.95 on the Chinese site, free shipping. Listed as "half dollar" though. Same design, but has "CC" under the bust.
Now I need to go shower off. I hate even going there.
Edit: looks like what the Chinese are selling is the "half dollar" version.
I would think a half dollar would be a half dollar in size not dime size like this is
Looks like Hemi & Rogers photos both show some sort of clashing. Do you see any on yours? Sorry if it is just me but I can't tell from the photos.
Martha Washington wasn't really big on coins until MacNeil used her on Standing Quarters, so there are some historical anomalies to be resolved as well as some metallurgical and coin press issues. Strike and details do look "off". Comedic intent looks "right on"
Yes, I didn't know there was also a real half dollar size until after I first posted. My point though is that the Chinese are making the half dollar one, so they're probably making the dime one too. We can no longer assume that if something is relatively unknown, the Chinese aren't counterfeiting them.
This is the type of 'coin' I pass on... just too much chance that it is not original ... and in addition, it really holds no interest for me.... I hope it is authentic... but will cost a bit to find out. Let us know...Cheers, RickO
Clash marks are not unusual on these, but they are not routine, either. There are at least four slightly different versions of the same designs, and almost no available information on when they were used.
1759?
I looks a lot like the MS62 graded by NGC
Found Thru coinfacts auction records
Two graded with two different weights?