Your jump to the conclusion that I am an investor because I prefer PCGS and CAC is without logic.
Apologies if my comment offended you, my comment is biased solely on your own statements that you will only buy PCGS and CAC because that combo sells for the highest amount. As you have made resale price the prime focus for your decision (at least that is how you have represented yourself in every discussion I've seen you post in regarding value) then it is perfectly logical to assume that an investor mentality vs a collector mentality is what motivates you.
Mark, just to clarify. what I am referring to is properly graded, problem free coins in non-PCGS holders which some believe PCGS DNC's to keep the money flowing. I just think that's a ridiculous way to think. it is to the advantage of PCGS(and NGC, of course) to have the best coins in their capsules, so why not do it when warranted??
back to my NGC crossovers of SC$'s: I can go back and add things up but the percentage is high, maybe 75%+ or three-out-of-four that I submit. whenever I have a DNC I look it over closely and when I'm convinced there are no problems I resubmit with "at any grade" and about half cross at the same grade, but they all grade, I feel that with some DNC's they see something they are unclear about and err on the side of caution because once the capsule is cracked they have no choice.
Thank you, Keets and based on the above, I no longer must disagree.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, just to clarify. what I am referring to is properly graded, problem free coins in non-PCGS holders which some believe PCGS DNC's to keep the money flowing. I just think that's a ridiculous way to think. it is to the advantage of PCGS(and NGC, of course) to have the best coins in their capsules, so why not do it when warranted??
back to my NGC crossovers of SC$'s: I can go back and add things up but the percentage is high, maybe 75%+ or three-out-of-four that I submit. whenever I have a DNC I look it over closely and when I'm convinced there are no problems I resubmit with "at any grade" and about half cross at the same grade, but they all grade, I feel that with some DNC's they see something they are unclear about and err on the side of caution because once the capsule is cracked they have no choice.
Thank you, Keets and based on the above, I no longer must disagree.
@MFeld - Glad I read to the end. Italicized texts from both from @keets' hidden quote and from @you ring true.
I appreciate your faith in my being able to reject a logical absurdity that precludes the possibility of a quantum universe, whether @keets posited one or not
Be as cynical as you want, but the strengthening of their brand by "producing" a "good" coin is worth more to a TPG than your next grading fee if this crossover didn't work. And if you're playing the game right, and so are they (meaning two of the three people in the grading queue are "on" that day), PCGS collects crossover insurance which can easily be more than the next grading fee.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@Cougar1978 said:
If they want Pcgs - CAC do they understand it will cost them more money?
Considering the innumeracy rate of "buyers fee deniers", that's a fair question.
I'm a whole-hearted CAC supporter with a natural bent towards skepticism. At this point in the market cycle, I stress downside protection to a greater degree than price appreciation. The more expensive the coin, the cheaper the relative cost of the best "market insurance" currently available.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Well if I could turn a $6 k additional on a $15 bean investment (the 1900-S $20 Lib in 65) I wb CAC rabid (wearing Got CAC? green Polo shirt w pic gold $20 Gem Lib) - Buy / Sell PCGS / NGC CAC Coins) but from buyer side a little hesitant. Don’t c some big runup in bids / sheet yet. CDN went down on my PCGS 66 CAC Oregon half this last issue.
Yes am skeptical somebody pay the additional $6k but perhaps billionaire would. Wonder if could get custom polo CAC shirt wear at shows (per above).
The 1871 dollar on the preceding page shows the progression of a finest known coin.
64 in rattler, 66 in NGC, 66 in PCGS.
Looked to me like there is competition to have better coins in one's company slab.
@savitale said:
I've crossed a several coins with "cross at any numerical grade". Some crossed at the same NGC grade, some crossed one grade lower (e.g. VF30 to VF25). Never had one cross to a higher grade. In about 25% of the cases they came back in the NGC slab but with a Details insert in the package. Based on this, I think PCGS is stricter than NGC about the Details thing, but only marginally stricter on grades.
If you had the same coins in PCGS holders to start with and tried to cross them into NGC holders, you might have had similar results. And reached the conclusion that NGC is stricter than PCGS about the Details thing, but only marginally stricter on grades. 😉
True. But since that didn't happen, and since the market usually values PCGS coins more highly than NGC coins, that situation seems extremely unlikely.
@savitale said:
I've crossed a several coins with "cross at any numerical grade". Some crossed at the same NGC grade, some crossed one grade lower (e.g. VF30 to VF25). Never had one cross to a higher grade. In about 25% of the cases they came back in the NGC slab but with a Details insert in the package. Based on this, I think PCGS is stricter than NGC about the Details thing, but only marginally stricter on grades.
If you had the same coins in PCGS holders to start with and tried to cross them into NGC holders, you might have had similar results. And reached the conclusion that NGC is stricter than PCGS about the Details thing, but only marginally stricter on grades. 😉
True. But since that didn't happen, and since the market usually values PCGS coins more highly than NGC coins, that situation seems extremely unlikely.
While they appear to be a small minority, there are collectors who prefer that their coins be in NGC holders. And “that situation” does occur.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I just sent in several ANACS and NGC slabbed medals to our hosts. I asked them all to be graded raw, as I wanted them in PCGS holders regardless of the grade, so not crossovers.
So I will get a fully 100% unbiased opinion, (which I believe I would have received anyway even if left in slabs, as at least two independent graders are involved). I wanted these in True View pictures, and also very few of these are graded at PCGS, so I might even get a top pop.
In a month or so, I will see how the grades compare with the original slab grades at both services.
My prior experience is about 1/2 crossover of moderns NGC to PCGS, at the same grade. But I have not sent in enough to say that for sure. This test will be more interesting, as all will be virgin submissions.
Comments
Your jump to the conclusion that I am an investor because I prefer PCGS and CAC is without logic.
Apologies if my comment offended you, my comment is biased solely on your own statements that you will only buy PCGS and CAC because that combo sells for the highest amount. As you have made resale price the prime focus for your decision (at least that is how you have represented yourself in every discussion I've seen you post in regarding value) then it is perfectly logical to assume that an investor mentality vs a collector mentality is what motivates you.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Thank you, Keets and based on the above, I no longer must disagree.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld - Glad I read to the end. Italicized texts from both from @keets' hidden quote and from @you ring true.
I appreciate your faith in my being able to reject a logical absurdity that precludes the possibility of a quantum universe, whether @keets posited one or not
Be as cynical as you want, but the strengthening of their brand by "producing" a "good" coin is worth more to a TPG than your next grading fee if this crossover didn't work. And if you're playing the game right, and so are they (meaning two of the three people in the grading queue are "on" that day), PCGS collects crossover insurance which can easily be more than the next grading fee.
They are at 38% in the last year.
https://www.pcgs.com/statistics/
If they want say Pcgs - CAC do they understand it will cost them more money?
1900-S $20 Lib MS65 for instance about $24 k CAC, $18k non CAC (CPG). Got Money? Just lay it on the table.....
Considering the innumeracy rate of "buyers fee deniers", that's a fair question.
I'm a whole-hearted CAC supporter with a natural bent towards skepticism. At this point in the market cycle, I stress downside protection to a greater degree than price appreciation. The more expensive the coin, the cheaper the relative cost of the best "market insurance" currently available.
Well if I could turn a $6 k additional on a $15 bean investment (the 1900-S $20 Lib in 65) I wb CAC rabid (wearing Got CAC? green Polo shirt w pic gold $20 Gem Lib) - Buy / Sell PCGS / NGC CAC Coins) but from buyer side a little hesitant. Don’t c some big runup in bids / sheet yet. CDN went down on my PCGS 66 CAC Oregon half this last issue.
Yes am skeptical somebody pay the additional $6k but perhaps billionaire would. Wonder if could get custom polo CAC shirt wear at shows (per above).
The 1871 dollar on the preceding page shows the progression of a finest known coin.
64 in rattler, 66 in NGC, 66 in PCGS.
Looked to me like there is competition to have better coins in one's company slab.
You lose a grade or two when you cross. You get the grade the coin really is when you crack first then submit. Weird how that works.
True. But since that didn't happen, and since the market usually values PCGS coins more highly than NGC coins, that situation seems extremely unlikely.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
While they appear to be a small minority, there are collectors who prefer that their coins be in NGC holders. And “that situation” does occur.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I just sent in several ANACS and NGC slabbed medals to our hosts. I asked them all to be graded raw, as I wanted them in PCGS holders regardless of the grade, so not crossovers.
So I will get a fully 100% unbiased opinion, (which I believe I would have received anyway even if left in slabs, as at least two independent graders are involved). I wanted these in True View pictures, and also very few of these are graded at PCGS, so I might even get a top pop.
In a month or so, I will see how the grades compare with the original slab grades at both services.
My prior experience is about 1/2 crossover of moderns NGC to PCGS, at the same grade. But I have not sent in enough to say that for sure. This test will be more interesting, as all will be virgin submissions.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set