A coin “grade” is:
RogerB
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“Grade” is a description of the surfaces of a coin or medal with respect to the amount of abrasion and damage to the item.
There are three (3) fixed reference points. All grade descriptions are derived from these reference points.
Reference Point 1: Perfect surfaces. The item is exactly as struck with no visible surface abrasion or damage. Clarity of design is not relevant.
Reference Point 2: About Uncirculated (AU). The item has traces of abrasion on the highest design point, and/or disturbance of field luster from handling. Surface damage other than mutilation is not relevant.
Reference Point 3: Poor. The item is identifiable by basic design type, but peripheral inscriptions are largely unreadable with any degree of certainty.
The above describes my basic categorization structure when grading a coin or medal. It is a set of fixed points of reference within an otherwise continuous natural distribution between points 2 and 3. It also requires that all items between points 1 and 2 be free of abrasion even though they will have varying quantities of damage from normal mechanical contact with equipment and other items.
This approach does not necessarily correlate with published grading guidebooks or techniques applied by TPGs.
The question is – “How do other members approach grading coins or medals?”
Comments
You well know how disbelieving I am about the efficacy of your grading sensibilities. And you know some of my role as a proponent of the current grading zeitgeist as a TPG founder and grader, and as an ANA Summer Seminar grading instructor.
Using point #1 - a 1940-S Walker struck with XF softness of detail and "no visible surface abrasion or damage" (under what magnification and/or at what distance?) with heavily striated but perfect surfaces is co-equal with a very rare full-thumb example with a single sparkle blinking from the eagle's back feathers,
Referring to point #2 - without a differentiation in definition of when surface abrasions are and are not handling marks as opposed to PMD past ejection from the die (I'm thinking the oft-used term "bag marks"), how would one measure the degree of interruption of original frost in terms of depth and breadth of the "de-virginizing" disruption of original metal?
My grading skills are atypical for Forum members. But my methodology has been battle-tested by buying selling an easy $100M (with and against the very highest levels of competition) of raw and graded coins and looking at I can't imagine how many billions' worth of others. And it is teachable. It involves looking at every coin one can. I've got stats from every grading class I've taught that track the improvement in grading scores over the "week" of classes. The transportability of principles. @njcoincrank can grade the socks off most anyone. The Advanced Grading and Problem Coin class he teaches was an exemplar for the technique of educating with imaged examples and then in-hand grading by discussion and consensus.
This systematic application of concrete examples of grading "opinions" concretize the consensual reality through which all humans transmit their ideas. For coins, that's not words, it's images. They eventually organize into a gestalt where there's a very high degree of agreement in the differences between a 61, 63, 65 and 67. There are so many nuances within and across series and metals that only images will suffice.
Whatever the OP may suggest is, for me, functionally replaceable with "One picture is worth a thousand words" and, even more so, one coin in-hand is worth a dozen pictures.
My approach is Zen Archery. See first. Think later. Keep thinking. Keep looking. Allows for a lot of nuance and consequent confusion. And that's how we educate ourselves on how to grade; resolving or rationalizing contradictions and discontinuities only to find later that more learning (seeing, thinking) comes and we find that some previous assumptions turn out to be less reliable than we had previously understood.
And what about focal points?
What a waste of typing
My approach to grading coins is to first put on my glasses. It's visual!!!
@ColonelJessup .... Under the current system, your commentary is accurate and well described. Cheers, RickO
Roger, I'd stick to your day job writing books as I cannot make much sense of the system you use.
However, I will give you props for this: "Grade” is a description of the surfaces of a coin or medal with respect to the amount of abrasion and damage to the item."
Unfortunately, it is incomplete as it stands because it leaves off other important attributes of a coin that influence its "commercial" grade! For example, The Colonel has mentioned strike.
I’m very certain that by the end of this thread we’ll have a new, perfectly defined, perfectly understood system of grading.
Or, perhaps, it’s a plastic, fluid, evolving concept that is abrasive to concrete-thinkers but acceptable to those with a little more abstract way of seeing the world. As the good colonel said, zeitgeist is probably the best word. Also, I agree that despite the subjective nature of it, grading can be taught, learned, and reasonably consistent.
@BryceM said: "Or, perhaps, it’s a plastic, fluid, evolving concept that is abrasive to concrete-thinkers but acceptable to those with a little more abstract way of seeing the world."
It can be proven that coin grading is: "A plastic, fluid, evolving concept." In about sixty years, many coins formerly graded Extremely Fine are now considered Mint State.
As to this: "...acceptable to those with a little moreabstract way of seeing the world," it is not not abstract at all! I see it for what it is: $$$$$.
The US Mint sends out coins freshly minted with abrasions. I've received several.
Of course it does! They also send out damaged and minor error coins. What is truly amazing to me is they also send out a very large number of TRUE MS/PR-70 coins (perfect) that hold up when viewed with both eyes using a microscope. It is a miracle
The invention of the microscope truly was a miraculous advance in coin viewing technology.
MS70/PR70 modern whatchamacallits fail to amaze.
Grading coins. You will never get everyone to agree on a grade.
It's all in your head.
Computers can't do it yet because it is an art.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
I am loving the Zen Archery and the Art of Coin Grading thing.
“And what is good, Phaedrus,
And what is not good—
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?”
Benefits of using a scope (combined with florescent light ONLY) to examine a coin:
a. Eye
b. Scope (any power needed, from 5-40X)
c. 7X hand lens
d. Eye again
It has evolved in the last 50 or so years to reflect market forces and an attempt to squeeze ever more money out of numismatics.