@jmski52 said: I did contend that you were afraid to know the truth as evidenced by your lack of effort to prove otherwise.
So use some logic. Gold is discounted right here in the USA when one needs to sell, so you really think it wouldnt be discounted when you need to eat?
What is it that you want me to prove? That gold isn't discounted during hyperinflation in Venezuela, or that dollars are discounted less than gold is discounted? Is that your "truth" that I'm supposed to be afraid of? What's your point?
Is your contention is that people in Venezuela were better off having dollars than gold? If that's your contention, I don't think you've proven your point. I've listed different viable circumstances that serve as exceptions to that contention and none of the articles you've cited say anything to the contrary.
I don't understand why you think you know what's going on in Venezuela other than the sad situation that people in need will accept gouging when they have few options.
Spot on.
You may notice that I’ve stopped feeding the troll (not you). I’ve no time for circular arguments, and input that adds nothing to the discussion at hand.
I really like well thought out dissenting opinions, even more so than opinions that I already agree with...but some seem to play the part of contrarian in an unhelpful and unpleasant way. No thanks.
Dont be afraid. Gold will save you. I presented a simply question. Dpoile gets it. Many others dont, wont, cant. Stack on!!!🐑
We were watching the coverage on one of the spanish channels yesterday after the champions league game, crazy stuff going on. My buddy from Romania, who lived through communism/socialism, bread lines, toilet paper lines (he's not 40 yet), all that good stuff that comes with it, we had an interesting conversation about all of that nonsense and why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless.
My buddy from Romania, who lived through communism/socialism, bread lines, toilet paper lines (he's not 40 yet), all that good stuff that comes with it, we had an interesting conversation about all of that nonsense and why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless.
Bingo!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said: My buddy from Romania, who lived through communism/socialism, bread lines, toilet paper lines (he's not 40 yet), all that good stuff that comes with it, we had an interesting conversation about all of that nonsense and why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless.
Bingo!
They don't even teach about it in the schools anymore. Erase history and repeat it via top-down directive is in play in US public schools. DoE is the worst thing to happen to kids here. My teacher wife loathes it.
Consumer prices have skyrocketed, and the International Monetary Fund expects the inflation rate to reach 10 million percent in 2019, which would be one of the worst cases of hyperinflation in modern history.
Violence and hunger are widespread. Food shortages have reached new highs in recent months, and 80 percent of Venezuelan households don’t have sufficient access to food, according to monitoring groups. Grocery store shelves are bare. Hospitals struggle to treat severely malnourished children.
The country’s public health system has collapsed, leaving many without access to lifesaving medicine. The rates of several preventable diseases have risen.
The migration of Venezuelans out of the country has reached levels not seen before in modern history. More than three million people have left since 2014, according to the United Nations migration agency, setting off a regional crisis that has left neighboring countries grappling with how to respond.
I would like to see the thread remain because I believe it is helpful and educational..
Please avoid politicizing this thread. There is no shortage of forums elsewhere for that desire.
I'm guessing their currency is now worthless. People that had their savings in this currency lost all their savings. And, yes, it could happen in this country.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@PerryHall said:
I'm guessing their currency is now worthless. People that had their savings in this currency lost all their savings. And, yes, it could happen in this country.
This I know...the Bolivar is worth much more on eBay than it is in Venezuela. I’ve been adding the beautiful notes to my failed currency collection.
Looks bad. It doesn't look like the army is abandoning Madero in sufficient numbers.
Cuba's bought into Madero because he's the only (albeit tenuous) source of oil for them. But all Cuba has to offer is doctors and spies. Russia seems to be enjoying causing trouble for the U.S. again, but I can't see that they have much to gain otherwise pouring any resources into Madero's debacle.
We're likely looking at vengeful recrimination and more systemic repression of the opposition there, and further economic free-fall. It sounds as though people have run though all their resources (gold, dollars, etc.), and are facing increasingly desperate deprivation.
There is the official and black market exchange rates. The common man cannot get dollars at the official rate.
Last year the government wiped 5 zeros off the current and now the new name is bolivar sobrenado or something like that.
Also late last year forecasts for inflation were in the 1-2 million percent. Now I see 10 million? I'll take hindsight over predictions.
Some are using Bitcoin as a store of wealth even. Their stock market is also going crazy as people park money there. Unfortunately, the only stories about gold are those selling even sentimental items for money to buy basics.
Doctors and nurses are leaving the country. Professionals can find work elsewhere. Those that stay have shortages of basic things like anesthesia.
@cohodk said: why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless
Folks are supporting a militaristic dictatorship?
The post was about socialism/communism and what the results of that are, and the discussion spurred from the news. If you would like me to expand, the Romanian situation resulted in a revolution such as this event yesterday , to get out from the end result of sed ideology, which my buddy witnessed firsthand.
The quoted comment was related to the social/comm ideology rise here in the states.
@cohodk said: why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless
Folks are supporting a militaristic dictatorship?
The post was about socialism/communism and what the results of that are, and the discussion spurred from the news. If you would like me to expand, the Romanian situation resulted in a revolution such as this event yesterday , to get out from the end result of sed ideology, which my buddy witnessed firsthand.
The quoted comment was related to the social/comm ideology rise here in the states.
I know what you meant. And I understand the Romanian and Polish and other Eastern Bloc countries, as well as Venezuela, Argentina, Zimbabwe and others, were countries whose hyoerinflation was the result of having the (corrupt) military in power. Those militaries usually gained power as a result of war, oftentimes civil war.
Some folks you see on TV are certainly misguided, but unless the USA is to be governed by a corrupt dictator with military backing, a similar result is highly unlikely here. The importance of the 2nd amendment is quite evident here.
The lesson of Venezuela's plight, perhaps, is that it matters less what goes on, than what people BELIEVE goes on.
In the face of this economic/social melt-down of this erstwhile wealthy country, a substantial portion of the people nonetheless (and even now) believe that the melt-down has been altogether caused by evil outsiders.
It makes you appreciate both the importance and frailty of our belief in our own institutions (including our monetary system).
@cohodk said:
And I understand the Romanian and Polish and other Eastern Bloc countries, as well as Venezuela, Argentina, Zimbabwe and others, were countries whose hyoerinflation was the result of having the (corrupt) military in power. Those militaries usually gained power as a result of war, oftentimes civil war.
Some folks you see on TV are certainly misguided, but unless the USA is to be governed by a corrupt dictator with military backing, a similar result is highly unlikely here. The importance of the 2nd amendment is quite evident here.
Hyperinflation is caused by reckless monetary management/printing. It has nothing to do with the political/military affiliation of whomever is in power. It has everything to do with corruption and reckless spending. It will not take a corrupt dictator with military backing to see a similar result here. Least we forget those behind our current monetary mismanagement/spending are in fact backed by a military.
@cohodk said:
And I understand the Romanian and Polish and other Eastern Bloc countries, as well as Venezuela, Argentina, Zimbabwe and others, were countries whose hyoerinflation was the result of having the (corrupt) military in power. Those militaries usually gained power as a result of war, oftentimes civil war.
Some folks you see on TV are certainly misguided, but unless the USA is to be governed by a corrupt dictator with military backing, a similar result is highly unlikely here. The importance of the 2nd amendment is quite evident here.
Hyperinflation is caused by reckless monetary management/printing. It has nothing to do with the political/military affiliation of whomever is in power. It has everything to do with corruption and reckless spending. It will not take a corrupt dictator with military backing to see a similar result here. Least we forget those behind our current monetary mismanagement/spending are in fact backed by a military.
But wait, it could never happen here. LOL.
Hyperinflation is created by severe supply/demand disruptions which are usually the result of war, not from money printing-which is an effect of hyperinflation, not a cause.
The result of these wars is usually a rise to power of the military. One does not need to fear AOC.
Yes, it did happen here, in 1864. And would occur again in a similar situation. That gonna happen in your lifetime? Your kids'...grandkids'?
@derryb said:
civil war is more often a result of hyperinflation, not a cause.
It is the disruption of the supply/demand equation that causes hyperinflation. Wars typically cause this disruption. Cases in point are Weimar, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Greece.
Wars do not cause hyperinflation, money printing does, even when it is done to pay for war. War can create supply shortages that can create a rise in prices, but runaway inflation (hyperinflation) is a reckless money supply issue. If war were the cause of inflation the fed would be promoting gun control.
@derryb said:
Wars do not cause hyperinflation, money printing does, even when it is done to pay for war. War can create supply shortages that can create a rise in prices, but runaway inflation (hyperinflation) is a reckless money supply issue.
War creates the disruptions. Markets demand higher prices for those goods and services. As those prices rise,govts pront larger and larger and bills to meet the demand. The money printing is in response to higher prices. It does not cause the higher prices.
Prices can start to rise because of a loss of confidence in a currency which can be from many reasons, but the hyper part of inflation is money printing as a RESULT of demand for more money.
Global increase in money supply over the last 10 years have proven that printing money does not cause hyperinflation.
@derryb said:
Wars do not cause hyperinflation, money printing does, even when it is done to pay for war. War can create supply shortages that can create a rise in prices, but runaway inflation (hyperinflation) is a reckless money supply issue.
War creates the disruptions. Markets demand higher prices for those goods and services. As those prices rise,govts pront larger and larger and bills to meet the demand. The money printing is in response to higher prices. It does not cause the higher prices.
Prices can start to rise because of a loss of confidence in a currency which can be from many reasons, but the hyper part of inflation is money printing as a RESULT of demand for more money.
Global increase in money supply over the last 10 years have proven that printing money does not cause hyperinflation.
It's not the actual printing that causes the problem, it's the introduction of the newly printed money into the marketplace, something that failed to materialize with QE1-4. Which war was it that resulted in the Zimbabwe $1 hundred trillion dollar notes?
Which war was it that resulted in the Zimbabwe $1 hundred trillion dollar notes?
Maybe you dont recognize a govt that took away farmers land, bulldozed thousands of businesses and homes, and massacred 10s of thousands of its own citizens as a civil war. Usually disrupting the ability to produce food and citizens to operate a business, force millions to flee the country, destroy the education system and prevent access to healthcare will lead to hyperinflation. I think id call that a war on your own people. Buts only if you dont want to consider Zimbabwes role in wars in the Congo.
It's not the actual printing that causes the problem,
The actual printing obligates taxpayers at some future time, and releases the mismanaged banking system from any responsibility. So there's that in terms of moral hazard. The corruption thingy.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It's not the actual printing that causes the problem, it's the introduction of the newly printed money into the marketplace, something that failed to materialize with QE1-4.
Lol just saw this, is this for real? Lol, what a statement, do people even read?, lol amazing...
@cohodk said:
Look at these poor Venzuelans...they are trading their gold for something even more valuable...food. And a hungry person will take whatever he can get.
When the people voted for a government that says they're going to do this during their elections, I don't feel bad. You might call me cold hearted but when you support the current government, you have to deal with the consequences. Communism ("socialism") has always turned into a dictatorship. Remember when this happened? How convenient....
Comments
Dont be afraid. Gold will save you. I presented a simply question. Dpoile gets it. Many others dont, wont, cant. Stack on!!!🐑
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Big day in Venezuela! I hope it ends well....
https://cnn.com/americas/live-news/juan-guaido-venezuela-operation-freedom-live-updates/index.html
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
we buy gold rates mean gold is not a good store of value
We were watching the coverage on one of the spanish channels yesterday after the champions league game, crazy stuff going on. My buddy from Romania, who lived through communism/socialism, bread lines, toilet paper lines (he's not 40 yet), all that good stuff that comes with it, we had an interesting conversation about all of that nonsense and why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless.
My buddy from Romania, who lived through communism/socialism, bread lines, toilet paper lines (he's not 40 yet), all that good stuff that comes with it, we had an interesting conversation about all of that nonsense and why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless.
Bingo!
I knew it would happen.
They don't even teach about it in the schools anymore. Erase history and repeat it via top-down directive is in play in US public schools. DoE is the worst thing to happen to kids here. My teacher wife loathes it.
From NY Times:
How bad is the country’s humanitarian crisis?
Consumer prices have skyrocketed, and the International Monetary Fund expects the inflation rate to reach 10 million percent in 2019, which would be one of the worst cases of hyperinflation in modern history.
Violence and hunger are widespread. Food shortages have reached new highs in recent months, and 80 percent of Venezuelan households don’t have sufficient access to food, according to monitoring groups. Grocery store shelves are bare. Hospitals struggle to treat severely malnourished children.
The country’s public health system has collapsed, leaving many without access to lifesaving medicine. The rates of several preventable diseases have risen.
The migration of Venezuelans out of the country has reached levels not seen before in modern history. More than three million people have left since 2014, according to the United Nations migration agency, setting off a regional crisis that has left neighboring countries grappling with how to respond.
I would like to see the thread remain because I believe it is helpful and educational..
Please avoid politicizing this thread. There is no shortage of forums elsewhere for that desire.
I'm guessing their currency is now worthless. People that had their savings in this currency lost all their savings. And, yes, it could happen in this country.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
This I know...the Bolivar is worth much more on eBay than it is in Venezuela. I’ve been adding the beautiful notes to my failed currency collection.
Looks bad. It doesn't look like the army is abandoning Madero in sufficient numbers.
Cuba's bought into Madero because he's the only (albeit tenuous) source of oil for them. But all Cuba has to offer is doctors and spies. Russia seems to be enjoying causing trouble for the U.S. again, but I can't see that they have much to gain otherwise pouring any resources into Madero's debacle.
We're likely looking at vengeful recrimination and more systemic repression of the opposition there, and further economic free-fall. It sounds as though people have run though all their resources (gold, dollars, etc.), and are facing increasingly desperate deprivation.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
There is the official and black market exchange rates. The common man cannot get dollars at the official rate.
Last year the government wiped 5 zeros off the current and now the new name is bolivar sobrenado or something like that.
Also late last year forecasts for inflation were in the 1-2 million percent. Now I see 10 million? I'll take hindsight over predictions.
Some are using Bitcoin as a store of wealth even. Their stock market is also going crazy as people park money there. Unfortunately, the only stories about gold are those selling even sentimental items for money to buy basics.
Doctors and nurses are leaving the country. Professionals can find work elsewhere. Those that stay have shortages of basic things like anesthesia.
why folks here in the states supporting that kind of ideology are clueless
Folks are supporting a militaristic dictatorship?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The post was about socialism/communism and what the results of that are, and the discussion spurred from the news. If you would like me to expand, the Romanian situation resulted in a revolution such as this event yesterday , to get out from the end result of sed ideology, which my buddy witnessed firsthand.
The quoted comment was related to the social/comm ideology rise here in the states.
I say duke it out, but keep it civil. Win, win.
I know what you meant. And I understand the Romanian and Polish and other Eastern Bloc countries, as well as Venezuela, Argentina, Zimbabwe and others, were countries whose hyoerinflation was the result of having the (corrupt) military in power. Those militaries usually gained power as a result of war, oftentimes civil war.
Some folks you see on TV are certainly misguided, but unless the USA is to be governed by a corrupt dictator with military backing, a similar result is highly unlikely here. The importance of the 2nd amendment is quite evident here.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Here is an article from early December
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cost-of-coffee-in-venezuela-doubles-in-seven-days-32vpmgpp0
It has stated an annualized inflation rate of almost 2 million percent using the cafe con leche measure.
This one is from mid April
https://econreview.berkeley.edu/venezuela-in-crisis/
The lesson of Venezuela's plight, perhaps, is that it matters less what goes on, than what people BELIEVE goes on.
In the face of this economic/social melt-down of this erstwhile wealthy country, a substantial portion of the people nonetheless (and even now) believe that the melt-down has been altogether caused by evil outsiders.
It makes you appreciate both the importance and frailty of our belief in our own institutions (including our monetary system).
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Hyperinflation is caused by reckless monetary management/printing. It has nothing to do with the political/military affiliation of whomever is in power. It has everything to do with corruption and reckless spending. It will not take a corrupt dictator with military backing to see a similar result here. Least we forget those behind our current monetary mismanagement/spending are in fact backed by a military.
But wait, it could never happen here. LOL.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Hyperinflation is created by severe supply/demand disruptions which are usually the result of war, not from money printing-which is an effect of hyperinflation, not a cause.
The result of these wars is usually a rise to power of the military. One does not need to fear AOC.
Yes, it did happen here, in 1864. And would occur again in a similar situation. That gonna happen in your lifetime? Your kids'...grandkids'?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
civil war is more often a result of hyperinflation, not a cause.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
It is the disruption of the supply/demand equation that causes hyperinflation. Wars typically cause this disruption. Cases in point are Weimar, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Greece.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wars do not cause hyperinflation, money printing does, even when it is done to pay for war. War can create supply shortages that can create a rise in prices, but runaway inflation (hyperinflation) is a reckless money supply issue. If war were the cause of inflation the fed would be promoting gun control.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
War creates the disruptions. Markets demand higher prices for those goods and services. As those prices rise,govts pront larger and larger and bills to meet the demand. The money printing is in response to higher prices. It does not cause the higher prices.
Prices can start to rise because of a loss of confidence in a currency which can be from many reasons, but the hyper part of inflation is money printing as a RESULT of demand for more money.
Global increase in money supply over the last 10 years have proven that printing money does not cause hyperinflation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It's not the actual printing that causes the problem, it's the introduction of the newly printed money into the marketplace, something that failed to materialize with QE1-4. Which war was it that resulted in the Zimbabwe $1 hundred trillion dollar notes?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Maybe you dont recognize a govt that took away farmers land, bulldozed thousands of businesses and homes, and massacred 10s of thousands of its own citizens as a civil war. Usually disrupting the ability to produce food and citizens to operate a business, force millions to flee the country, destroy the education system and prevent access to healthcare will lead to hyperinflation. I think id call that a war on your own people. Buts only if you dont want to consider Zimbabwes role in wars in the Congo.
It's not the actual printing that causes the problem,
You get an A.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-17/venezuela-sells-570-million-from-gold-reserves-despite-sanction
The actual printing obligates taxpayers at some future time, and releases the mismanaged banking system from any responsibility. So there's that in terms of moral hazard. The corruption thingy.
I knew it would happen.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-12/hyperinflation-forces-venezuela-to-roll-out-three-new-bills
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold/venezuela-loses-1-4-billion-of-gold-to-banks-for-guarantees-sources-idUSKCN1T72LU
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold/venezuela-gold-reserves-drop-by-1-billion-in-first-half-2019-idUSKCN1VO202
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/venezuela-inflation-at-10-million-percent-its-time-for-shock-therapy.html
Lol just saw this, is this for real? Lol, what a statement, do people even read?, lol amazing...
Why people quoting AOC now all the time?...
Gold is money... always will be...
Why people quoting AOC now all the time?...
say what?
I knew it would happen.
When the people voted for a government that says they're going to do this during their elections, I don't feel bad. You might call me cold hearted but when you support the current government, you have to deal with the consequences. Communism ("socialism") has always turned into a dictatorship. Remember when this happened? How convenient....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430